Welding Myth? - Flux Core w/Argon?

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MNAirHead
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Welding Myth? - Flux Core w/Argon?

Post by MNAirHead » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:08 pm

I had someone suggest that the strongest welds are with argon AND flux core welds... they said ugly but strong.

Truth or bull?

terry cloyd
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Re: Welding Myth? - Flux Core w/Argon?

Post by terry cloyd » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:24 pm

MNAirHead wrote:I had someone suggest that the strongest welds are with argon AND flux core welds... they said ugly but strong.

Truth or bull?
Tim argon is the flux for a mig welder and there is a flux core welding spool. You can't run both at the same time.

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MNAirHead
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Post by MNAirHead » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:33 pm

dumb learning question why not?

This advice was from a pro fab welder of high $$$$ boats

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MedicTed
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Post by MedicTed » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:47 pm

It is technically possible to run both, but why? Flux core was created as a patch for those that do not have and/or cannot afford gas rigs. The flux core when melted releases argon to shield the weld from oxygen. When you run gas, it flushes the weld area with argon to shield the weld. Why use both? The flux core welds tends to splatter and not be anywhere near as neat.

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MNAirHead
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Post by MNAirHead » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:50 pm

Like stated earlier..

The guy is a pro fabber.. he said it is a stronger weld...

I've never tried it.

terry cloyd
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Post by terry cloyd » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:55 pm

MNAirHead wrote:dumb learning question why not?

This advice was from a pro fab welder of high $$$$ boats
Maybe what you wanted to say? What is stronger welded, solid mig wire with argon OR self-shielded tubular wire. Yes......No????

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All_talk
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Post by All_talk » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:21 pm

I’ll say its True. I’ve worked with fabricators for about 15 years now and I know they do it, Its called “Dual Shield”. It gives better penetration than hard wire with just the gas shield, similar to stick welding. I’m not positive but I believe they use a different gas than the standard “steel mix” with it, maybe pure argon. And Yes, if you’re not good with it the welds can look like poo.

Gary

Theo
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Post by Theo » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:35 pm

I've run both with good results. I was lazy and left the flux core in. Works good and is strong.

Theo

Bugfuel
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Post by Bugfuel » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:40 pm

Flux core's main benefit is that it can be used outdoors, in windy conditions.

If you use both, it's no different than using solid regular wire and doubling up your gas flow. :) BUt such waste of gas is expensive, and if you al;ready had flux core handy.. you could maybe give it a little gas to help keep the seam cleaner trhan with just plain flux core. I dunno. I see no reason why in automotive work I should even try.

Jan

terry cloyd
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Post by terry cloyd » Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:15 pm

Why would anyone combine both flux cord and argon together to weld mild steel. Argon is for welding in a controlled environment. The flux is open environment. If you need a stronger weld gas weld it or change the the material to aircraft tubing and heli-arc welding.

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All_talk
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Post by All_talk » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:10 pm

Fine ignore what I say, lots of people do. :P Never mind that I know what I’m talking about (in this case at least, lol). I’ve been a Mechanical Design Engineer for almost 15 years and have worked with professional welders and fabricators the entire time, and I promise you Dual Shield welding is a common practice. It is typical used with heavier plate, tube, I-beam and channel. Here’s a bit of text from this page…

http://www.esabna.com/us/en/education/k ... Market.cfm

"...For those applications where critical weldments are required such as the ship building industry, the Dual Shield II Ultra Series provides low spatter, low fume and also exhibits extremely good mechanical properties along with low diffusible hydrogen levels. ESAB’s latest innovation for the welding fabricator is Dual Shield 70 Ultra Plus. Specifically designed for optimized performance with high argon shielding gases..."

Is dual shield common in automotive work, I doubt it. Would it even be useful in automotive work, maybe not. But does it exist, yep, and its used in ways just as described by the boat builder man.

Gary

Disclaimer: No attitude, anger, disrespect or personal attack is expressed or implied by these comments… I’m just feeling like a know-it-all today (same as any day). :)

500LbGorilla

Post by 500LbGorilla » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:42 pm

Never mind Terry, he's kind of.. well, old and slow.

terry cloyd
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Post by terry cloyd » Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:32 pm

So....Gary what I posted is just BS. I am in the million mile club for welding. Do you want to race? I worked for RG&B they did the last 23 miles of the Alasken pipeline. Sorry my license is older that yours. Mark you are a super star, do you have a spy that can dop by and see me? I hope you and the family have a super Christmas.

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All_talk
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Post by All_talk » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:25 am

Hmm… Humor is so hard to get across on the internet, again I have failed. :?

Terry, I’m sorry. Again, it was not my intent to offend you or challenge your skill or knowledge as a welder, or in any other respect. My only point was that Dual Shield is an accepted welding practice used in specific circumstances. Accurate information is my only goal.

I’m not here to argue, I’m backing out of this one.

Gary

P.S. Mods please delete or edit my posts as you see fit.

terry cloyd
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Post by terry cloyd » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:05 am

No Gary ...... thanks for your expertise . I would like for You and the family to have a SUPER Christmas. Bring are people HOME.

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