The "Super 2 liter plus" outline revealed!

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Can Drive Soon
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Post by Can Drive Soon » Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:48 am

I tried copy and pasting his stuff in google, it didn't come up anywhere.

MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:01 am

It'll be easy enough for Le and I to test the Singh theory and I have a good engine coming up to try it out on...

As far as engineers are concerned- everyone know my stand there, but I have found that those that have practical application experience, coupled with their degree to be a different breed. (those are few and far between)

As far as Beth's engine goes... Well It's being finished today after a few mods to utilize it's newest addition.

Beth, myself, Len and Brent are the only ones thatknow whats going on with the project at this point and I don't plan on sharing it until we debut the car!

The second "Super 2 Liter" is ready for the dyno- it'll get tested this week!

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Ephry73
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Post by Ephry73 » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:01 am

I cannot wait to see the results.

E

arlo
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Post by arlo » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:13 pm

Jake (or others here), if you want to explore this you should look at the patent Singh has been granted if you havent already. It is US patent #6,237,579. You can view it on line at www.uspto.gov. Click on patents and quick search by patent number. Be aware that you can not legally use the method defined by the claims he has been granted without his approval.

Notice BTW that there is a very large amount of detailed description of the specifics of why and how this works in glowing terms and absolutely NO test data or test methods disclosed in the patent to prove these statements!

MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:24 pm

Oh well, looks like we won't be trying it out then....

BergRace
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Post by BergRace » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:58 pm

Here is a direct link to the patent:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars ... /6,237,579

J.

arlo
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Post by arlo » Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:12 pm

You may want to test it to satisfy your (and our) curiosity and who knows...maybe learn something new along the way, but the lack of good test data from Singh leaves me very skeptical.

mikeG15
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Post by mikeG15 » Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:58 pm

Even though the idea is patented there is nothing to stop you building an engine for test purposes . The patent only restricts you from any commercial use of the idea without the patent holders permission, though using the results for publicity of any kind might be construed as also falling within that category.

MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:19 pm

I have no desire to try something that may require "asking" someone if I can do it.
I'd rather blaze my own trail than walk down someone elses, with their permission!

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Post by Santas Brother » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:36 pm

Patents are issued for new ideas,OR improvements on existing ideas.
IF the idea works,then it should be possible to improve upon it.


So far,I haven't seen anyone be able to duplicate his "results".


-----------


Jake's take on Engineers is right on the money,in my experience.

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Can Drive Soon
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Post by Can Drive Soon » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:55 pm

I thinks its worth a try...

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Piledriver
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Post by Piledriver » Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:38 am

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:I have no desire to try something that may require "asking" someone if I can do it.
I'd rather blaze my own trail than walk down someone elses, with their permission!


Reading the fellows writings, he is very likely to give you "permission" in exchange for data.

Just IMHO.

Anyone know of a utility to load a kiva mesh and manipulate it (adding a groove)?
Finally centered the plug on engineFOAM test motor, using polar coordinates not cartesian as advertized.
(0,0,0.091 is centered and .91 thou down from top, I think.)
EDIT: Duh, not polar coordinates, but 0,0 is the center of the cylinder, and the height of the ignition source is from the BOTTOM of the stroke... so 0 0 .091 is 91mm from the BOTTOM of piston travel "space"
Last edited by Piledriver on Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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dstar
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Post by dstar » Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:44 am

It isn't even Singh's idea, Larry came up with it YEARS before him.

Read about T.O.O sometime's, facinating!
Jake reminds me of Larry alot!
:lol:

HE found that the value of the *improvement* didn't justify the cost
OR the drawbacks associated with it.

Don

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Piledriver
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Post by Piledriver » Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:27 pm

dstar wrote:It isn't even Singh's idea, Larry came up with it YEARS before him.

Read about T.O.O sometime's, facinating!
Jake reminds me of Larry alot!
:lol:

HE found that the value of the *improvement* didn't justify the cost
OR the drawbacks associated with it.

Don
I do also vagely recall T.O.O. mentioning grooves in his writings/published articles, but could not find it. Link?

That would pretty much invalidate the patent if Larry mentioned it ih Hot Rod or something in 1985...

I STILL haven't had any luck with the meshes, and the powers that be haven't yet responded to my inquiry on getting a copy (or buying) of KIVA3V2 to edit the mesh...

But spark plug position is fun to play with!

When I moved the ignition point over next to the larger (intake side) squish pad, vs the centered plug location (it appears to be a Subaru-ish 92x78 (now) pent roof 4 valve motor, 137mm rods, motor geometry is definable) I have a MUCH faster burn, now at ~90+% burn before 90 ABDC.

The flame front "sticks" to the piston, and follows it down in a column like flame front, filling the cylinder rapidly.

With the top/center plug (per normal practice), it was lucky to make ~40% by then, as the flame front does NOT "stick" to the piston, and has to work its way down from the top, much, much slower.

I'll gen up an animations for anyone interested.

If you are running any UNIX variant, (Linux etc) OpenFOAM should work for you.
Paraview (visualizer) is a RAM hog tho... FOAM isn't at all. CPU hog from hell...
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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Can Drive Soon
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Post by Can Drive Soon » Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:38 pm

Lets see a Movie! I'll bring the popcorn!

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