O.K. you got me hooked!

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scruffyboy
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O.K. you got me hooked!

Post by scruffyboy » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:07 am

Just completed a 6000+ mile trip in my re-engined 1982 Westy without a hiccup (Thanks Bob!) BUT.....It needs more ponies! I'm open to suggestion. I was thinking along the lines of a turnkey from Jake. But I have this nice engine from Boston Bob that was JUST installed. Where can we go from there? Not sure just how often I'll get to this forum so best way to get in touch is scruffyboy3@juno.com

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NO_H2O
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Post by NO_H2O » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:06 am

Camper Special or the Power Stroke. I have the Camper Special with CIS Kjet injection in a 73 I am building for my son and I love it.

MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:13 am

I don't provide engines for Vanagon applications these days, we stopped those a few years ago...

BUT I could supply you with a Camper Special or Powerstroke engine kit and someone like NoH20 could assemble it for you..

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tuna
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Post by tuna » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:25 am

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:I don't provide engines for Vanagon applications these days, we stopped those a few years ago...
My question is, why? What makes the Vanagon the odd man out? Is it the cost to make it live in a Vanagon? Complexity? It seems to me that as long as you develop a combo for what the Vanagon need, low end torque, that a Type 4 should do well. Just a thought...

Tuna

MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:23 pm

Too labor intense, all the sheetmetal pieces increase complexity more than most imagine.

The other reason is due to the heavy weight of the vehicles coupled to the gearing and the loads they see compared to most other buses.

We never enjoyed building the engines and i never liked the stress of having to worry about them being OK for 100K miles... When we got super busy they were the first thing to get the boot!

There was also not enough of a following for us to create special engine combinations especially for them..

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tuna
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Post by tuna » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:56 pm

Ok, then what exactly is the issue with making a hi-po Type 4 live correctly in a Vanagon? I don't mean to hi-jack this thread, but I'd rather not alienate the Vanagon guys with pure ignorance. What's wrong with the gearing? Too tall? Is the Vanagon just too much for an aircooled engine?

I'd like to cover this in a future tech article on my site, as someday I'd like to do a custom Vanagon with a nice Type 4. The British crank out some really cool custom Vanagons that I'd like to build myself.

Tuna

MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:44 pm

I honestly believe that the vanagon should have retained the 091 gearing and then it would have had a chance aircooled.. The gearing is so tall that the engine is always working very, very hard, but when the ratios are changed the vanagon doesn't like the freeway at all.

Very seldom do we ever see a vanagon case or set of heads that are usable.

I don't mean to alienate the vanagon guys either and I think an article would be well accepted- I'll assist if you would like.

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tuna
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Post by tuna » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:15 pm

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:Very seldom do we ever see a vanagon case or set of heads that are usable.
Yes, but that was with the stock camshaft and the stock exhaust. Would a Vanagon work with a nice header (like a Tangerine system) and Nickies? You've stated millions of times that these two stock items are the reason that most bone stock Type 4s die a painful death. If you could leverage the cooling capability of the Nickies and a freer flowing exhaust, logic would dictate that you'd be closer to getting a the power that a Vanagon needs and still be reliable for many years to come.
I don't mean to alienate the vanagon guys either and I think an article would be well accepted- I'll assist if you would like.
When I get around to it, I'll let you know. I'd really like to cover this subject o my site, as there is a segment of the Type 4 crowd that would be interested. It may not be worth it for your business, but as an enthusiast, I want to help these guys out and get them going in the right direction.

Tuna

farmer
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Post by farmer » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:28 pm

I´m with Jake. They are a pain to do, for a good deal due to the ratios in the transmission. It´s kinda hard to make a setup that will cool efficiently, pulling 35 or more hp @ 2400 rpm.
IF one should attemp to build a good aircooled engine for that vehichle, I would say 78 mm stroke, of course T1 rod journals, 5,4" rods. 94 mm bore.
Cam is tough. But DEFINITELY fuel injection, because this alone seems to have about a 10 - 20 degree positive effect on head temps.

Over the years I have seen a couple of German vehichles built that way, (but with stock, even shorter T4 2,0 rods, and carbs though) They seemed to live and perform nicely. Typically about 110 hp @ 5 K rpm.
The cams they used were 270ish. Out of what I see and hear, the lifespan have been about 75-80.000 miles before serius maintenance was needed.
- A nickies equipped engine, along with a better designed cam, would most likely yield 100K miles without too much trouble. But then again,how many cars of these yearmodels are still on the road (?) And how many of those are ready to empty their wallet to get an engine like that. - Very few, at least around here.
T

MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:49 pm

Thats a big problem.. The owners of these won't open the wallet- most of them are halfassed and barely run...

I honestly feel that a Suby is the answer for these vehicles-

scruffyboy
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Suby in an Aircooled?!

Post by scruffyboy » Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:44 pm

O.K. O.K. I get it...But a Suby conversion? I suppose there's enough room up front for a radiator/fan and you COULD chop out the metal for a lower grille...Hmmmm Anyone out there actually DONE a Suby to air cooled?

scruffyboy
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Additionally...

Post by scruffyboy » Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:57 pm

Sort of a "post script" Jake I DID open the wallet and got my engine from Boston Engine. I would have opened it up further for an engine that didn't have to struggle so hard. I can see your point about all that tin, it was a chore but I managed.

MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:12 pm

Bob did you a good job I am sure... I'd leave it as is and drive it!

scruffyboy
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Probably the best idea

Post by scruffyboy » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:22 pm

:wink: Probably the best idea. Besides...gives me time to S L O W down and smell da coffee. But for my NEXT van...

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