External oil cooler woes

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shawn63deluxe
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External oil cooler woes

Post by shawn63deluxe » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:53 am

Hi there just prior to fitting my Dtm kit on my 2056 I have come across a small problem, take a look at my engine :

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As you can see I have a sandwich plate under the standard oil filter mount to act as a take off for my external cooler. The trouble is my flash bespoke header did not take into account the extra room needed under all this with a tall fram filter as well so the tube from number three gets in the way :x
There is enough room if I use a standard T4 filter without the sandwich plate but I now do not have the facility to use my external cooler. Can I run a hose from the dtm supplied take off that mounts to the standard oil cooler mount, run it to my external cooler, back to the dtm supplied adaptor on my standard relocated cooler then back to the other dtm supplied adaptor :?
Hope that made sense :shock:

Oh I have a schadeck 30mm oil pump as well to cope with extra pressure as required.

MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:47 am

This will be easy for you to "fix" because you already installed galley plugs.

The answer is full flowing the engine and blocking off the factory oil filter housing, allowing for external placement of the oil filter.

What you'll need is my full flow kit and about an hour to install it.

I am short on time right now and can explain more later. Full flow has big benefits!

shawn63deluxe
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Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 9:42 am

Post by shawn63deluxe » Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:14 pm

Brilliant info from the master himself :wink:
When you've a spare moment some details would be great :D

shawn63deluxe
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Post by shawn63deluxe » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:07 pm

Any pointers Jake ? keen to pester Rebecca with an order :wink: :lol:

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Wally
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Post by Wally » Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:13 am

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote: Full flow has big benefits!
Jake,

I have always wondered about this, as virtually nobody I know of in europe ever did or does this to a type 4 engine, because of course its already full flow, not externally, but just internally :?

I know you've said the internal parts of the case just after the oil pump pressure side are very restrictive and'you probably seen failures on lubrication on some of your earlier builds, but its still odd that no one else seems to have had problems with lubrication.
In fact, a lot of respectable german tuners use the stock oil pump and its not to save money, I'am sure.
This includes the 225/240 hp 2732 street engine of Gerd Tafel (www.tafel-tuning.de) in his own mex beetle, which runs for many years now and he usually drag-races the h*ll out of it with his stock 24mm type 4 pump.

I am sure you're right its restricted in there, but when (which rpm?/oil pressure?) will it become an issue?
Are you sure the failures from back then you experienced were caused by the fact that back-then your engines were not full flow or did you maybe also upgrade other parts of the oil system that might be the reason that since the external full flowing of your engines these lubrication problems never came back?

Thanks,
Walter
T4T: Type 4 Turbo engine, under construction

MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:35 am

I started full flowing when we had several different cases of worn #4 rod bearings in performance applications. when a larger pump didn't do the trick and altered clearances also didn't do the trick I went to full flow and the issue was solved.

All those 45 and 90 degree bends within the stock oil system, right after the pump are horrible for impacting flow.

I haven't used a stock pump since 1999, I have about 600 of them in the back if any of your German buddies want them- I won't ever go back to them for anything more than a 100% stock build.

BTW- while the stock oil filter is better than nothing, its still not purely full flow as it has a pressure relief inside it that opens at as little as 30 PSI oil pressure, bleeding oil past the filter.

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Wally
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Post by Wally » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:56 am

Its very nice that we/I are able to ask these questions and you willing to answer them this directly.

Your remark of the oil filter relief valve made me suddenly aware where my problems with a sandwich adapter and an attached pre-heating device for Liquid Propane Gas may originate from :roll: They may indeed be flow related...

Thanks a bunch again Jake!
Walter
T4T: Type 4 Turbo engine, under construction

MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:16 am

wally, Glad to help.

I'd like to add that those #4 bearing issues only occured on engines that were street engines and did not turn max RPM at all times.They occured with stock pumps, melling pumps and Type 1 pumps. When the full flow was utilized the issues died.

Its seems at HI RPM the arrangement is more forgiving than at lower revs with more load and it's always #4 that hurts. #4 is ALWAYS the first jurnal to run out of oil..

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Piledriver
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Post by Piledriver » Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:15 pm

Is full flow practical with stock cooling?
(914)

...specifically your full flow kit?
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:37 pm

Sure, but the left hand engine mount needs modifying..

The only application it will not work with is a Bus due to the engine mount position.

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Piledriver
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Post by Piledriver » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:30 am

In that case I'l be ordering the full flow setup.


Observation---
Many of the stock "cores" I have pulled down over the years have lost #2 rod bearing, never #4.

Is there a reason#2 would die like that?
(first in line for trash?)

BTW, it appears I'm gonna need a reduced base circle cam, clearanced for an 82 crank and SCAT 5.5 Chevy journal rods...
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:34 am

#2 and #4 are the first to go...

#2 is the first to simply wear out with mileage and #4 is the first to go when an oiling issue occurs. I run a tad bit more #2 and #3 main bearing clearance on some engines to promote better oiling to these rod journals...

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