Smaller plenum = more power?? It can!(sidewinder test too)

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RXBeetle
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Post by RXBeetle » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:27 pm

This thread is great!
This was on an FSAE car a few years back...
http://evilallianceracing.com/ipw-web/gallery/ConeTB
Slide throttle and variable length intake on the Mazda Rotary LeMans car, huge pics! (just to get you all drooling)
http://www.fd3s.net/787B/26b_1.jpg
http://www.fd3s.net/787B/26b_large.jpg
I know there are some SAE papers on that intake somewhere...

I've grown up in plastics extrusion (family busines). By grown up in I mean I was so young I had to stand on a box to reach most of the handles on the machines in the machine shop. Oh yeah the center in the die is called a spider.

Keep up the good work!

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Plastermaster
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Post by Plastermaster » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:44 pm

I noticed (going back to the begining here) the sidewinder muffler made better torque at 2000 and 2500 rpm. It probably wouldn't really be noticed though....at least not near as much as the gains with the straight thru muffler.

Ron

MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:03 pm

Plastermaster wrote:I noticed (going back to the begining here) the sidewinder muffler made better torque at 2000 and 2500 rpm.

Ron
thats just because of the 40" primaries.... It would have also made more at 1000 and 1500, but all of that is unusable on the street...

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Racer Chris
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Post by Racer Chris » Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:57 pm

Speaking of the Tangerine :) , I am just completing some design upgrades which I think will allow me to get the best performance from my mufflers for upright conversion cars. I will be offering single and dual outlet mufflers in configurations for Beetle/Ghia, Thing, 356 - all based on the same header layout. The dual outlet silencers will come at an additional premium from now on though, due to the additional material and labor involved.

huw'sspeedster
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Post by huw'sspeedster » Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:08 pm

cool let me know details, i want a system to make the most out of my 2270torquer kit in a chesil speedster kit car
thanks
huw

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tallqball
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Post by tallqball » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:53 am

I might be interested too. The motor is basically the back of the car in a Bradley.

Considering making my own, with help from a VERY skilled manifold fabricator. The logistics of that are looking tough though, as far as putting equipment, people and a place together.

Q

MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:10 am

Considering making my own, with help from a VERY skilled manifold fabricator
He may be skilled, but unless he has vast experience with a TIV the chances are that all the effort will result in ill results.

This is based on direct experience and the fact that in the past 6 weeks I have had an influx of questions here and on my store site that stem directly from inadequate exhaust systems and deficiencies they have created.

It blows me away every time someone spends 5K bucks on an engine and then couples a header to it that wouldn't be worth a hoot on a stock engine- then they wonder why the engine doesn't run worth a damn, can't be tuned and runs hot!

Purchasing a known exhaust system is the wisest product selection that one can make, cut a corner and lose your ass. exhaust on the TIV doesn't play.

What goes in must come back out, so all those big valves, higher CR and mean camshafts don't do you a damn bit of good unless you get it all exhausted effectively.

I have dynoed a customers 2270 with a home brewed header that didn't even make 100HP, but he would not listen, cheesed out and 250 miles later an exhaust valve snapped in half and the engine was fully compromised.

Exhaust IT, or exhaust yourself wondering why you spent a lot of money and have an untunable pig-

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Wally
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Post by Wally » Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:25 am

Yeah, the 2,7 shall probably get a tangerine as well. I still need to assemble the long block in mock-up form, so I can take measurements for Chris.
@Jake: Chris mentioned you were maybe having a custom 1 7/8" one build by Chris for a big engine. Would my 103x80 (unwelded 914 2,0 heads) benifit from that larger diameter (as opposed to 1 3/4") also?

Thanks,
Walter
T4T: Type 4 Turbo engine, under construction

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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:23 am

@Jake: Chris mentioned you were maybe having a custom 1 7/8" one build by Chris for a big engine. Would my 103x80 (unwelded 914 2,0 heads) benifit from that larger diameter (as opposed to 1 3/4") also?
what powerband are you looking for?

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Wally
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Post by Wally » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:30 am

Looking for a really sporty engine with still a broad powerband (3500-6500-ish).
It has 5,7" rods and cam gives appr. 0.527" lift (split duration and lift btw) but doesn't have huge duration.

TIA,
Walter
T4T: Type 4 Turbo engine, under construction

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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:58 am

whats the duration?

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Wally
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Post by Wally » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:01 am

Difficult to say, as it was an older custom grind, but measured in the us-way (at 0,1" lift iirc), it was like 262/266 degrees (in/ex).

Its EFI/ direct fire (DTA), so bottom torque could be good and tuned indefinately...

Chris gave me a hard time about the 1 7/8" size, but engine analyzer in combination with exhaust analyzer gave an ideal primary size of 49mm, which is almost 2" :shock:
Now, if YOU said it could be benificial to use the 1 7/8"in my application... :roll:

Thanks,
Walter
T4T: Type 4 Turbo engine, under construction

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Wally
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Post by Wally » Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:49 pm

Jake,

Any thought as to the 1 7/8" primary size for a tangerine 4-2-1 with all the above info?
PM would be fine if its too OT :lol:

Thanks,
Walter
T4T: Type 4 Turbo engine, under construction

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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:54 pm

Where do you want to see peak HP??

Do you have any idea what the heads flow?

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Wally
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Post by Wally » Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:12 pm

At around 6500 I _ think_ , but I don't seek a specific rpm where top Hp should be at all; as much as possible over a broad range is what I'am after.

Don't know what the heads flow, but they are really really nicely done with 46/40 valves...

So whats your (gut) feeling/experience? Is it viable?

Tnx!
T4T: Type 4 Turbo engine, under construction

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