Powdercoat
- Leatherneck
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- Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:47 pm
Powdercoat
Do any of you guys do your own powdercoating? I am talking about small pieces. I know you need a oven to heat the parts but what all does it take and how hard is it to do in house?
- david58
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Re: Powdercoat
That would depend on if you are married. Good question Leatherneck.Leatherneck wrote:Do any of you guys do your own powdercoating? I am talking about small pieces. I know you need a oven to heat the parts but what all does it take and how hard is it to do in house?
Hot, humid air is less dense than cooler, drier air. This can allow a golf ball to fly through the air with greater ease, as there won't be as much resistance on the ball.
- Tom Notch
- Moderator
- Posts: 3332
- Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2000 12:01 am
I do much of my own powder coating. I have a glass bead cabinet next to an oven out in my garage.
I highly recommend you don't use the oven in your house. Or any oven used for food prep for that matter. Eastwood also says the same thing. Also don't do it in your house, use your shop/garage/shed/shade tree......
I was extremely lucky in scoring an oven, my neighbor had one in his driveway to get rid of on the Sat. morning I was heading out to find a used one.
I highly recommend you don't use the oven in your house. Or any oven used for food prep for that matter. Eastwood also says the same thing. Also don't do it in your house, use your shop/garage/shed/shade tree......
I was extremely lucky in scoring an oven, my neighbor had one in his driveway to get rid of on the Sat. morning I was heading out to find a used one.
Tom
Tom's Old VW Home
DVKK
DSD, dark side disciples
Tom's Old VW Home
DVKK
DSD, dark side disciples
- Leatherneck
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- bajaherbie
- Posts: 9959
- Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:07 pm
- david58
- Moderator
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- Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:14 pm
How Small?bajaherbie wrote:China Freight i mean Harbor Freight sells a powdercoating system but i've never tried it....probably would work pretty good on smaller items.
Hot, humid air is less dense than cooler, drier air. This can allow a golf ball to fly through the air with greater ease, as there won't be as much resistance on the ball.
- volkaholic1
- Posts: 224
- Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 6:19 pm
I specialize in powdercoating VW engine tin, check out the website. I also do other parts,,,
All parts need to be degreased & blasted clean.
If you want to do it yourself, do NOT use the oven in your kitchen. If you are doing used parts, any oil or grease or what ever in the inside (intake manifolds for example) will smoke bad & stink up your house. Do you really want to cook food in there after that? Even if you have clean parts, some colors of powders hend to smell, so put the oven in the garage. Plus spraying the powder on the part will also make a mess unless you plan well.
I built a large blasting cabinet, a well lighted powdercoating booth, a dust collector for both, installed an oversize oven,,, you get the idea.
good luck with your project
All parts need to be degreased & blasted clean.
If you want to do it yourself, do NOT use the oven in your kitchen. If you are doing used parts, any oil or grease or what ever in the inside (intake manifolds for example) will smoke bad & stink up your house. Do you really want to cook food in there after that? Even if you have clean parts, some colors of powders hend to smell, so put the oven in the garage. Plus spraying the powder on the part will also make a mess unless you plan well.
I built a large blasting cabinet, a well lighted powdercoating booth, a dust collector for both, installed an oversize oven,,, you get the idea.
good luck with your project
- MNAirHead
- Posts: 9570
- Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:12 am
Yes.. it sprays.
Reading the website it sounds a bit too promising to work.
The challenge is that the material dries super slow.. the finish is impecable.
For undercarriage parts we strip to bare steel.. clean and then shoot zero rust.
For the gun I'm using a cheeeeepo suction gun ($15)..
You can thin Zero Rust with several hardware store solvents... xylene, acitone etc.
For about $50/gallon.. it comes in colors.. you can't beat it.
Reading the website it sounds a bit too promising to work.
The challenge is that the material dries super slow.. the finish is impecable.
For undercarriage parts we strip to bare steel.. clean and then shoot zero rust.
For the gun I'm using a cheeeeepo suction gun ($15)..
You can thin Zero Rust with several hardware store solvents... xylene, acitone etc.
For about $50/gallon.. it comes in colors.. you can't beat it.
- RomanBug
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:54 pm
I'm doing some body work on a guys 64 vert. He bought a kit from Eastwoods for 100 bucks and swears by it. He used the reflective silver as a base and then sprayed the transparent red over it. it looked just like anodized aluminum.
http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/prod ... ductID=412
http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/prod ... ductID=412
-
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- Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:34 pm
Powdercoating Tips
I used to own my own powdercoating business but sold it. Seeing that I've gotten so much good information from this site, I'm happy to list a few of the "tricks" I've picked up over the years.
Gun
The difference between ther cheapest powdercoating gun and the expensive ones is the quality of the craftsmanship; the harbor freight gun will do as good of a jopb as the others (the difference is with the very expensive ($2k+) models being able to monitor the thickness of the power for translucents and high production.
Oven
Use an electric oven that your not going to be cooking in. Gas or convection settings can blow the powder off object before it is baked on. You can use special gas ovens, but its not worth trying... can start a fire.
Heat Lamp
Heres a BIG tip. If you want to do larger parts you can use a heat lamp, but you'll need to get a laser thermometor to monitor the baking. The big tip is as follows: Most heat lamps are very expensive and use alot of electricty; buy a Mr. Heater dual heat unit and make your own. This unit runs off propane. You can use it because it is not in an enclosed area and does not blow fast enough to blow the powder off your piece.
Blasting
Glass bead blasting is ok, but black beauty is best. It scratches the surface more to help the powder grip (similar to sanding w/ 180 or 220 grit paper before primering). The powder "flowes" and will level the surface (one of the great benifits to powdercoating is that the parts do not need to be as perfect as painting). Sanding w/ sand paper does not prep surface nearly as well as blasting (makes it too smooth). Note: the dust from black beauty is very bad for your health and some respirators do not effectively stop you from inhaling the silca oxide (harmful dust) ; be careful.
Other tips
-Pre-heat aluminum (and pourous metals) to open pores before powder is applied. This will eliminate the potential for rare bubbles (its just cheap insurance).
-For hobby coaters, Columbia Coatings is a good company to deal with (they sell alot of good starter stuff as well) (they also sell a heat lamp the style I speak of... but if your coating you can likely make your own and save $). There web site also has alot of good information.
-For parts that you want extra protection on, or are susceptable to rust, Eastwoods rust encapsulator can stand up to the powder coating bake period; makes for a great primer for your powder.
-Once powder "flows" (gets shinny and smooth from baking) it is not close to done. Don't be fooled because the powder still needs to bake into the part. If left alone the coating will easially scratch and come off. Make sure you bake according to manufacturers specs or you will not benifit from the true durability potential of you final product.
-Fades in powder are accomplished easially by using air to remove powder after being on applied (before baking) over a partially baked under color.
I know I have alot more tips, but cannot think of them all right now. More than anything, take your time and have fun. You'll be impressed by what you can do with powder.
Gun
The difference between ther cheapest powdercoating gun and the expensive ones is the quality of the craftsmanship; the harbor freight gun will do as good of a jopb as the others (the difference is with the very expensive ($2k+) models being able to monitor the thickness of the power for translucents and high production.
Oven
Use an electric oven that your not going to be cooking in. Gas or convection settings can blow the powder off object before it is baked on. You can use special gas ovens, but its not worth trying... can start a fire.
Heat Lamp
Heres a BIG tip. If you want to do larger parts you can use a heat lamp, but you'll need to get a laser thermometor to monitor the baking. The big tip is as follows: Most heat lamps are very expensive and use alot of electricty; buy a Mr. Heater dual heat unit and make your own. This unit runs off propane. You can use it because it is not in an enclosed area and does not blow fast enough to blow the powder off your piece.
Blasting
Glass bead blasting is ok, but black beauty is best. It scratches the surface more to help the powder grip (similar to sanding w/ 180 or 220 grit paper before primering). The powder "flowes" and will level the surface (one of the great benifits to powdercoating is that the parts do not need to be as perfect as painting). Sanding w/ sand paper does not prep surface nearly as well as blasting (makes it too smooth). Note: the dust from black beauty is very bad for your health and some respirators do not effectively stop you from inhaling the silca oxide (harmful dust) ; be careful.
Other tips
-Pre-heat aluminum (and pourous metals) to open pores before powder is applied. This will eliminate the potential for rare bubbles (its just cheap insurance).
-For hobby coaters, Columbia Coatings is a good company to deal with (they sell alot of good starter stuff as well) (they also sell a heat lamp the style I speak of... but if your coating you can likely make your own and save $). There web site also has alot of good information.
-For parts that you want extra protection on, or are susceptable to rust, Eastwoods rust encapsulator can stand up to the powder coating bake period; makes for a great primer for your powder.
-Once powder "flows" (gets shinny and smooth from baking) it is not close to done. Don't be fooled because the powder still needs to bake into the part. If left alone the coating will easially scratch and come off. Make sure you bake according to manufacturers specs or you will not benifit from the true durability potential of you final product.
-Fades in powder are accomplished easially by using air to remove powder after being on applied (before baking) over a partially baked under color.
I know I have alot more tips, but cannot think of them all right now. More than anything, take your time and have fun. You'll be impressed by what you can do with powder.
-
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:34 pm
It really depends on the part and its condition. The encapsulant I spoke of (eastwoods), works great as a primer for powder coating parts that are susceptible to rust... a little extra protection.
It also depends on where you live. I like to take a little extra precaution living in the northeast.
Using encapsulants saves you time from blasting and baking; I really enjoy using them. For the time and effort involved, its tough to beat the results you can get with many industrial encapsulants.
I've used POR15 many times in the past, and got great results. But later realized how important the pre-soak acid wash was (because a couple pieces that were not acid washed started to bubble).
On a classic vehicle, I'd try to stay with whatever looked, and is the most original; keeping it a classic. But for resto-mods and customs, powder coating enhances the final product in ways encapsulants cannot. This is most prevalent in the special effects powders (chrome, translucent’s, metallic’s) where results are achieved that single stage paints/encapsulents cannot. Hence, why most all painters use base coat, clear coat products. I think all products have their corners of one restoration/modification or another, the line waves with a vehicles use, color desired, texture, etc…
Another thought... if you dont want to blast or make the effort, the powder will not adhere as well as a paint/encapsulent; don't powder coat a wire brushed piece because it will look great... for a month (year if your lucky). This is consistent with soda blasting (also sometimes bead) where the surface is smoother than desired for optimal pawder adhesion. Don't waste you time or money, use black beauty (which can also be recycled in your blaster).
Personal Preferences for VW parts
- I like to encapsulate the pan because it is large to powdercoat (especially for how much it is seen).
- Building many off road vehicles, the powder coated (especially suspension and motor) parts are less susceptible to chipping than the encapsulants that have a hard surface. Also, easier to machine after. (this is not the case if the powder coating is not cured correctly… it will chip if you breath on it too hard).
It also depends on where you live. I like to take a little extra precaution living in the northeast.
Using encapsulants saves you time from blasting and baking; I really enjoy using them. For the time and effort involved, its tough to beat the results you can get with many industrial encapsulants.
I've used POR15 many times in the past, and got great results. But later realized how important the pre-soak acid wash was (because a couple pieces that were not acid washed started to bubble).
On a classic vehicle, I'd try to stay with whatever looked, and is the most original; keeping it a classic. But for resto-mods and customs, powder coating enhances the final product in ways encapsulants cannot. This is most prevalent in the special effects powders (chrome, translucent’s, metallic’s) where results are achieved that single stage paints/encapsulents cannot. Hence, why most all painters use base coat, clear coat products. I think all products have their corners of one restoration/modification or another, the line waves with a vehicles use, color desired, texture, etc…
Another thought... if you dont want to blast or make the effort, the powder will not adhere as well as a paint/encapsulent; don't powder coat a wire brushed piece because it will look great... for a month (year if your lucky). This is consistent with soda blasting (also sometimes bead) where the surface is smoother than desired for optimal pawder adhesion. Don't waste you time or money, use black beauty (which can also be recycled in your blaster).
Personal Preferences for VW parts
- I like to encapsulate the pan because it is large to powdercoat (especially for how much it is seen).
- Building many off road vehicles, the powder coated (especially suspension and motor) parts are less susceptible to chipping than the encapsulants that have a hard surface. Also, easier to machine after. (this is not the case if the powder coating is not cured correctly… it will chip if you breath on it too hard).
- SCOTTRODS
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:15 am
Re: Powdercoat
WOW! I realize this thread is old and outdated, but I hate to think anyone would follow, very closely, the advice given above.
I'm an AVID "Hobby" powder coater. Been in it for a little over 3 years, and by the time I was 1 year in, I would have known to clear up some of the advice given.
Firstly, The powder coating gun is in fact important to quality and efficiency. The controls of the $5k guns (yep,.. and even higher priced ones) will have better transfer efficiency than the hobby guns,(on multiple coat projects) for sure. There's a wide variety of guns available now, that weren't available when this thread was started, I'll call them mid grade guns, they can be from around 500 bucks to 1500 bucks. These are typically very good guns, and way more effective than the $69 Harbor Freight guns, or the Eastwood Hobby guns. I think trying the HF guns to see if you like powder coating is a great idea,.... low cost, throw away price tag. I was hooked IMMEDIATELY when I first shot powder,.... using the HF gun. Eastwood was THE go-to place for a good powder coating forum back in 2008, but they are not that awesome nowadays.
The best support is from Custom Coaters like myself, over on a Powder coating forum from a company called "powder365.com" Look through their site and find the forum link. Another forum would be PowderBuyThePound's forum.... not much traffic there any more, but a few guys with some input (I'll check there pretty much daily).... Columbia Coatings pretty much had the worst customer service of any company I dealt with early on, and from what I know, it's about the same now.... just sayin'
Ovens - Well,.... here's a good time to advise folks to build your own oven. There is another finishing website that has the best oven building forums. It's Caswell Plating.... They also specialize in DIY electroplating and anodizing and stuff like that too. VERY cool site. The powder coating forums there are slow moving also, but they have THE BEST oven building forum available. Bar None!. I'm there also, but the go-to guy for info and electrical knowledge is a guy that goes by "ed_denu". He knows his Schtuff.
You can use that "kitchen oven fro the small stuff, but as most folks that get started powder coating, it's hard to stop getting bigger, as everyone will ask "can you coat......?" and it's always just slightly larger than your oven will handle. A typical Kitchen oven will handle a 16" rim "fairly comfortably" but handling is problematic usually... there are quite a few solutions available on the Powder coating forums.... The main thing to look for in an oven is temp control. The tighter the control, the better. There are manufacturers that sell inexpensive larger ovens too, on ebay... I bought a box from Ted's Fabrication off ebay and have been mostly satisfied,.... Of course I have modified it since purchasing,... It's even better now. large enough to stand myself inside it about 9 times.... under $3k..... the money just flows into this like your old Beetle projects....
Heat lamps..... I'm not sure what the OP meant by "making your own unit"... but he's right, you can use something other than an electric oven. Some folks even change the heat source from electric to gas (CNG, LP,.... you get the picture?) This involves some concepts that are discussed on the above mentioned Powder coating and oven building forums.... Great info. The problem is, there are few people using then IR lamps to cure so the discussions are few and some get very heated(pardon the pun) about which is better. The IR lamps can be used and put away, where an oven is pretty much what it is.... and remains the same size typically.... That's the biggest advantage I can find to the IR lamps over a conventionally made oven (gas or electric notwithstanding). The idea in PC is to heat the part to cure temp,... doesn't matter what method so much as to the reaching the temp and sustaining it for the required amount of time. Different powders require different times and temps.... there is even technology that has some powders curing by UV now,.... so it's definitely dependent on what powder used and the results desired....
Blasting - I'm sure the discussion on this is all over the place too (around STF) about what's best for what.... I have used a bunch of different blasting medias and none are particularly "better" than the other. They all have their place just like what kind of lube you use on what part. Although the concensus is that Aluminum Oxide "reigns" over the rest, for consistency and "profile" of the substrate. "Profile" is the texture given to the substrate.... It can be given too heavy of a profile or even not enough profile. Examples will be best shown by comparing Soda Blasting to Aluminum Oxide, with a side order of Glass Bead....
Soda - removes only the coating. removes no rust (or damned little rust if you can tell it's done anything at all) Not the best for a part that is going to be painted or powder coated, unless further surface prep is to be done.
Aluminum Oxide - Removes any coating... can take some time on tough coatings, such as chrome or even powder coating. It also removes rust. During removal (or if the surface has no coating) it will leave a blast profile or "tooth" for powder coatings to hold onto. Since powder coating is put on thicker than most paints, it can be a fair profile, recommended around 1-1.5 mils... they have testers you can buy for this evaluation, as well as mil thickness testers for the final product for conformance if needed. Aluminum oxide kinda wins out as an "all around best" as it works well for a reasonable amount of cycles of use.....
Glass bead is a great "cleaner" and will slowly remove rust.... but it wears down and becomes less effective much quicker than AO. GB also kind of "polishes" a surface leaving it more shiny than most media. This is especially cool to add effect under transparent powders and candies,..... It does a fair job on profile, but it's not really where I like the profile to be for something i want to last seemingly forever.... and be tough as can be against nicks and chipping. Suffice it to say,... that's one of the biggest advantages of powder coating is it's toughness.... circumventing a good profile is going to reduce the durability and toughness quite a bit. I have used lots of GB on things like Stainless Steel, to give a really nice appearance to shoot that candy over... Looks like satin when finished.
The Pre-Heating process described above, is known to the world of coaters, as "Outgassing" a part. There are some details that need to be known in order to do that effectively and it also helps to know that it's most common on CAST parts,... Cast Aluminum, Cast Iron, and Holy Bejeeeezus... even Cast Pot Metal (which this can be totally ineffective on), as well as Brass and other "cast-able" metals.... and plastics..... yes... I said Plastics. You can coat some plastics too. Different process, but it is possible. Outgassing heats the part up to a temperature above the required temp for the powder being used, and opens any pores in the metal, allowing the escape of casting media and other contaminants trapped in the pores due to environmental exposure of the part (IE... in the engine compartment of a car.... greasy environment) A good example of a part that would need outgassing to prevent a crappy finish, would be the end castings on a Dual Port VW engine, and maybe the Alternator/Generator Stand. Engine cases would too, but I don't really recommend Powder coating the engine cases, although it's done all the time.... I'd recommend more of the "heat dispersing coatings" also recommended by the Late Bob Hoover. It makes sense.
There is a process called Pre-Heating, that is used to help achieve attraction of powder top some stubborn parts. This is accomplished in a completely different manner than the "Outgassing" I just described. It's also for a different reason. It's to get the powder to stick to the part, not avoid bubbles in the coatings (also called outgassing)
For the dicionary, Outgassing can be defined 2 ways.
1. The heating of parts to avoid contaminants being released DURING cure cycle. "I outgas cast parts before coating them."
2. The releasing of contaminants during the cure cycle. "The hub I coated, Outgassed really bad, screwing up an otherwise awesome finish."
For Hobby Coaters - UGH! the OP actually suggested one of the worst companies I have dealt with, as far as Customer Service. That doesn't mean they have bad products, or anything like it.... it means I had terrible issues with the Owner of the company in my dealings there. I still buy an occasional powder there, as all the powder re-sellers like them, offer something that the others do not.... gotta keep my options open on that.... That being said, here's a small list of places to buy powders and supplies.
Powder365.com
Powderbuythepound.com
Columbia coatings
caswell plating
Pro powder supply
NIC Prismatic powders
Peridium Powders
Rosey's Powder coating
and many more...... they all have their place. Most of these places sell Dupont, Sherwin Williams and Tiger Drylac powders by renaming them and selling them by the pound. Otherwise, the manufacturers will require you to buy anywhere from25 lbs to 55 lbs on any single color.... that's a BOAT LOAD of powder. You could theoretically coat 2700 sq feet of metal with one 55 lb box of powder.... Several complete VW bodies.
Now the one thing that REALLY set me off when doing the research that landed me on this thread - Using anything other than powder for a powder coating base, is ludicrous. There are several powder coating primers, with and without additional components to add to corrosion resistance on parts exposed to the world. The chemistry of the powder is also part of the corrosion resistance formula. There are several chemical formulations of powders (similar to paints) that offer up different characteristics for the proper applications. Using a powder primer then the intended color coat or base/color, is the BEST way to do these things,... not a spray can version of any other kind. There are ways to create a super strong, corrosion resistant finish, using Powder.... there are other "preparatory products to aid in adhesion also,.... but they are specifically designed to do that... not something else. If there's rust under anything.... it will eventually come through the finish or eat the substrate out the other direction.
Shiny in the oven is really the second stage of the curing process, and the OP is correct in stating it's not done just 'cause it's shiny. the 4 stages are Melt, Flow, Gel, and Cure. they all have very definite times for their function and the timing of the cure makes it happen. If you're doing some hobby coating, and your powder scratches real easy, or chips (ever) or can be rubbed off with mild solvents (even MEK shouldn't take much off)..... then it's under cured. PM me for more details if you need 'em.
effects and creative stuff in powder coating is only limited ot the creative mind, and the patience of the coater. If you can do it in Paint, it can be done in Powder. The one and only difference in the two, that is critical, in my opinion, is the repair-ability of powder is not as advanced as it is for wet paints.And let's be frank about it.... A candy paint job ain't something that's gonna get "repaired"... it's gonna get -redone. So they're not that different in the grand scheme of things, other than the flexibility and the toughness of powder coating. Fades, Two Tones, Custom colors,... flip flop colors, all of that is available in powder as well as paint, just not as big of a variety of powders yet.... they're coming along QUICKLY with new powders that do almost anything. I just wish I could find a powder that would do the Ford "MYSTIC BLUE".... I could sell tons of that stuff!
Don't know how active the OP is on the forums, but things have changed since he posted this stuff.... I'm in it as a hobby to the tune of over $10k in equipment and supplies right now(just for powder coating).... about to buy more (Seems like every day now).
PM me or ask by starting a new thread here.... I'm gonna do everything I can to help out.
I'm an AVID "Hobby" powder coater. Been in it for a little over 3 years, and by the time I was 1 year in, I would have known to clear up some of the advice given.
Firstly, The powder coating gun is in fact important to quality and efficiency. The controls of the $5k guns (yep,.. and even higher priced ones) will have better transfer efficiency than the hobby guns,(on multiple coat projects) for sure. There's a wide variety of guns available now, that weren't available when this thread was started, I'll call them mid grade guns, they can be from around 500 bucks to 1500 bucks. These are typically very good guns, and way more effective than the $69 Harbor Freight guns, or the Eastwood Hobby guns. I think trying the HF guns to see if you like powder coating is a great idea,.... low cost, throw away price tag. I was hooked IMMEDIATELY when I first shot powder,.... using the HF gun. Eastwood was THE go-to place for a good powder coating forum back in 2008, but they are not that awesome nowadays.
The best support is from Custom Coaters like myself, over on a Powder coating forum from a company called "powder365.com" Look through their site and find the forum link. Another forum would be PowderBuyThePound's forum.... not much traffic there any more, but a few guys with some input (I'll check there pretty much daily).... Columbia Coatings pretty much had the worst customer service of any company I dealt with early on, and from what I know, it's about the same now.... just sayin'
Ovens - Well,.... here's a good time to advise folks to build your own oven. There is another finishing website that has the best oven building forums. It's Caswell Plating.... They also specialize in DIY electroplating and anodizing and stuff like that too. VERY cool site. The powder coating forums there are slow moving also, but they have THE BEST oven building forum available. Bar None!. I'm there also, but the go-to guy for info and electrical knowledge is a guy that goes by "ed_denu". He knows his Schtuff.
You can use that "kitchen oven fro the small stuff, but as most folks that get started powder coating, it's hard to stop getting bigger, as everyone will ask "can you coat......?" and it's always just slightly larger than your oven will handle. A typical Kitchen oven will handle a 16" rim "fairly comfortably" but handling is problematic usually... there are quite a few solutions available on the Powder coating forums.... The main thing to look for in an oven is temp control. The tighter the control, the better. There are manufacturers that sell inexpensive larger ovens too, on ebay... I bought a box from Ted's Fabrication off ebay and have been mostly satisfied,.... Of course I have modified it since purchasing,... It's even better now. large enough to stand myself inside it about 9 times.... under $3k..... the money just flows into this like your old Beetle projects....
Heat lamps..... I'm not sure what the OP meant by "making your own unit"... but he's right, you can use something other than an electric oven. Some folks even change the heat source from electric to gas (CNG, LP,.... you get the picture?) This involves some concepts that are discussed on the above mentioned Powder coating and oven building forums.... Great info. The problem is, there are few people using then IR lamps to cure so the discussions are few and some get very heated(pardon the pun) about which is better. The IR lamps can be used and put away, where an oven is pretty much what it is.... and remains the same size typically.... That's the biggest advantage I can find to the IR lamps over a conventionally made oven (gas or electric notwithstanding). The idea in PC is to heat the part to cure temp,... doesn't matter what method so much as to the reaching the temp and sustaining it for the required amount of time. Different powders require different times and temps.... there is even technology that has some powders curing by UV now,.... so it's definitely dependent on what powder used and the results desired....
Blasting - I'm sure the discussion on this is all over the place too (around STF) about what's best for what.... I have used a bunch of different blasting medias and none are particularly "better" than the other. They all have their place just like what kind of lube you use on what part. Although the concensus is that Aluminum Oxide "reigns" over the rest, for consistency and "profile" of the substrate. "Profile" is the texture given to the substrate.... It can be given too heavy of a profile or even not enough profile. Examples will be best shown by comparing Soda Blasting to Aluminum Oxide, with a side order of Glass Bead....
Soda - removes only the coating. removes no rust (or damned little rust if you can tell it's done anything at all) Not the best for a part that is going to be painted or powder coated, unless further surface prep is to be done.
Aluminum Oxide - Removes any coating... can take some time on tough coatings, such as chrome or even powder coating. It also removes rust. During removal (or if the surface has no coating) it will leave a blast profile or "tooth" for powder coatings to hold onto. Since powder coating is put on thicker than most paints, it can be a fair profile, recommended around 1-1.5 mils... they have testers you can buy for this evaluation, as well as mil thickness testers for the final product for conformance if needed. Aluminum oxide kinda wins out as an "all around best" as it works well for a reasonable amount of cycles of use.....
Glass bead is a great "cleaner" and will slowly remove rust.... but it wears down and becomes less effective much quicker than AO. GB also kind of "polishes" a surface leaving it more shiny than most media. This is especially cool to add effect under transparent powders and candies,..... It does a fair job on profile, but it's not really where I like the profile to be for something i want to last seemingly forever.... and be tough as can be against nicks and chipping. Suffice it to say,... that's one of the biggest advantages of powder coating is it's toughness.... circumventing a good profile is going to reduce the durability and toughness quite a bit. I have used lots of GB on things like Stainless Steel, to give a really nice appearance to shoot that candy over... Looks like satin when finished.
The Pre-Heating process described above, is known to the world of coaters, as "Outgassing" a part. There are some details that need to be known in order to do that effectively and it also helps to know that it's most common on CAST parts,... Cast Aluminum, Cast Iron, and Holy Bejeeeezus... even Cast Pot Metal (which this can be totally ineffective on), as well as Brass and other "cast-able" metals.... and plastics..... yes... I said Plastics. You can coat some plastics too. Different process, but it is possible. Outgassing heats the part up to a temperature above the required temp for the powder being used, and opens any pores in the metal, allowing the escape of casting media and other contaminants trapped in the pores due to environmental exposure of the part (IE... in the engine compartment of a car.... greasy environment) A good example of a part that would need outgassing to prevent a crappy finish, would be the end castings on a Dual Port VW engine, and maybe the Alternator/Generator Stand. Engine cases would too, but I don't really recommend Powder coating the engine cases, although it's done all the time.... I'd recommend more of the "heat dispersing coatings" also recommended by the Late Bob Hoover. It makes sense.
There is a process called Pre-Heating, that is used to help achieve attraction of powder top some stubborn parts. This is accomplished in a completely different manner than the "Outgassing" I just described. It's also for a different reason. It's to get the powder to stick to the part, not avoid bubbles in the coatings (also called outgassing)
For the dicionary, Outgassing can be defined 2 ways.
1. The heating of parts to avoid contaminants being released DURING cure cycle. "I outgas cast parts before coating them."
2. The releasing of contaminants during the cure cycle. "The hub I coated, Outgassed really bad, screwing up an otherwise awesome finish."
For Hobby Coaters - UGH! the OP actually suggested one of the worst companies I have dealt with, as far as Customer Service. That doesn't mean they have bad products, or anything like it.... it means I had terrible issues with the Owner of the company in my dealings there. I still buy an occasional powder there, as all the powder re-sellers like them, offer something that the others do not.... gotta keep my options open on that.... That being said, here's a small list of places to buy powders and supplies.
Powder365.com
Powderbuythepound.com
Columbia coatings
caswell plating
Pro powder supply
NIC Prismatic powders
Peridium Powders
Rosey's Powder coating
and many more...... they all have their place. Most of these places sell Dupont, Sherwin Williams and Tiger Drylac powders by renaming them and selling them by the pound. Otherwise, the manufacturers will require you to buy anywhere from25 lbs to 55 lbs on any single color.... that's a BOAT LOAD of powder. You could theoretically coat 2700 sq feet of metal with one 55 lb box of powder.... Several complete VW bodies.
Now the one thing that REALLY set me off when doing the research that landed me on this thread - Using anything other than powder for a powder coating base, is ludicrous. There are several powder coating primers, with and without additional components to add to corrosion resistance on parts exposed to the world. The chemistry of the powder is also part of the corrosion resistance formula. There are several chemical formulations of powders (similar to paints) that offer up different characteristics for the proper applications. Using a powder primer then the intended color coat or base/color, is the BEST way to do these things,... not a spray can version of any other kind. There are ways to create a super strong, corrosion resistant finish, using Powder.... there are other "preparatory products to aid in adhesion also,.... but they are specifically designed to do that... not something else. If there's rust under anything.... it will eventually come through the finish or eat the substrate out the other direction.
Shiny in the oven is really the second stage of the curing process, and the OP is correct in stating it's not done just 'cause it's shiny. the 4 stages are Melt, Flow, Gel, and Cure. they all have very definite times for their function and the timing of the cure makes it happen. If you're doing some hobby coating, and your powder scratches real easy, or chips (ever) or can be rubbed off with mild solvents (even MEK shouldn't take much off)..... then it's under cured. PM me for more details if you need 'em.
effects and creative stuff in powder coating is only limited ot the creative mind, and the patience of the coater. If you can do it in Paint, it can be done in Powder. The one and only difference in the two, that is critical, in my opinion, is the repair-ability of powder is not as advanced as it is for wet paints.And let's be frank about it.... A candy paint job ain't something that's gonna get "repaired"... it's gonna get -redone. So they're not that different in the grand scheme of things, other than the flexibility and the toughness of powder coating. Fades, Two Tones, Custom colors,... flip flop colors, all of that is available in powder as well as paint, just not as big of a variety of powders yet.... they're coming along QUICKLY with new powders that do almost anything. I just wish I could find a powder that would do the Ford "MYSTIC BLUE".... I could sell tons of that stuff!
Don't know how active the OP is on the forums, but things have changed since he posted this stuff.... I'm in it as a hobby to the tune of over $10k in equipment and supplies right now(just for powder coating).... about to buy more (Seems like every day now).
PM me or ask by starting a new thread here.... I'm gonna do everything I can to help out.
I have found them completely missing more than once. - PILEDRIVER
Some pics of My Powder Coating work
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Some pics of My Powder Coating work
http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg6/terrellster/
My Facebook Page for Powder Coating
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001788886297