Engine build almost complete

Here's the place for info on converting to a Type V motor!
buildabiggerboxer
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by buildabiggerboxer » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:10 pm

Some valid points here, BUT, if you are going to bush it, I would use bronze bushes to be 100% sure, I know retailers will big up the alloy version, and fine they MAY be for street use,, possibly, but as the object of the exercise is being to push performance and therefore loads, why use the original material which can wear? I have two bronze bush motors with zero lifter problems on heavy valve springs at regular 7000 rpm thresholds, often up to 7500, we KNOW these are fit and forget.
You can see the safe lifter edge margin on T1 lifters/WEB 86c pictured above, but on the other hand, Steve has run on stock lifter size with high performance off road motors at probably 6000 rpm, let's be frank, the only time you need more is for circuit racing, in reality, a 6000 rpm wasser, cammed for torque is a formidable weapon, folk wonder why mine is so quick over the lap, well I built it for TORQUE I say, they look blank, not impressed, they want to hear, oh, 300 hp easy mate, it's easy to forget the T word, doesn't exist for drag motors.
Pile, watch those heads, 6000 is the point the intake guides become a 'boom' point with German heads, I can't say ALL German heads, they may have corrected at some point, intake guides came up .0015" under for the 4 year run I was aware of, so up to '89 ish. AMC are fine these days, their spring retainers are good tho heavy, German retainers wear to the point of pull through with heavy springs, I've just caught them half worn through the retainer with all the lost pressure, next stop was the retainer hitting the rocker, lights out.

AMBROSIA
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:06 pm

JC stocks both ali and bronze bushes, should it come to this.
The joy of a wbx bug in my experience is the silly amounts of torque :wink:
I never wanted a high end screamer, I just wanted the torque band up to 6k rather than dropping off a cliff at less than 5k.

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Piledriver
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by Piledriver » Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:03 am

Good to know about the VW guides and stock retainers, the motor was meant to be a tq monster, as it will be doing its original duty pushing around a Vanagon through an automatic. I'd be shocked it's still pulling at 6K, even with the ex-SAAB 2.0 GT17 blowing its one little lung out.

HD duals (std CB issue) and Berg retainers with the extra installed height, properly ground CrMo keepers...
mini-rant:I still strongly suspect the CrMo keepers we are sold are not really made for 8mm valve stems, they don't fit the valve stems or retainers as they should, even when ground for proper spacing, seem to be for larger diameter stems...

I gave up on the Berg-ish copy Chinese 1.4:1 rockers due to not being able to fix the geometry and valve stem side loads....and will eventually just pick up a set of 1.25s with swivel feet, will be fine with solid lifters and Manton CrMo pushrods.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

AMBROSIA
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:37 am

I have a Rocky Jennings cam in my 2316 wbx, standard lifters (t4 style, stock wbx), CB 1.25 Rockers, etc. All from Rocky. It basically raises the stock power band by about 500 RPMs. This could be an option (no machine work) setup for you.
Thanks for this.
I have fired off an email to see what he has available.

AMBROSIA
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:05 am

Sadly Rocky only does hydro or T1 style solid, so no options there.
I've decided to get the bores machined as this is the best all round solution as people have said.
As JC is busy until Late September I've contacted a few of my UK WBX friends and Matt Keene (Airkraft) has suggested Taylor Machine services in Halifax.
I will give them a call Monday and see what the time frames are but like all quality machinists in the UK they're overworked and probably backlogged.
Gone are the golden days of UK manufacturing :(

Iain.

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Piledriver
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by Piledriver » Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:21 pm

Someone does sell mushroom-head T4-bodied lifters.
(EMW?)

Bit heavy but almost drop in, just need hand clearancing to make room for the heads..
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

AMBROSIA
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:25 pm

Yeh, saw those Pile but decided against due to the extra weight.
The engine is now completely stripped and I just need to get the head studs out, so they are soaking with some plusgas.
Ended up breaking a set of pliers trying to get a stubborn circlip out.
This engine is fighting me nail and tooth all the way.....

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Piledriver
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by Piledriver » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:02 pm

If you have a propane torch a little heat will expand the aluminum and break down the thread locker.

Just move it around some so as not to overheat the aluminum.
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Superflo
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by Superflo » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:05 am

An other option is the lifters made by RS-motors.at a few years ago, some german tuners may have some sets but they are pricey. They are under 60gr.
RS lifters1.jpg
RS lifters2.jpg
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AMBROSIA
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:34 am

An other option is the lifters made by RS-motors.at a few years ago, some german tuners may have some sets but they are pricey. They are under 60gr.
They look great but I doubt I have enough clearance.
Image
If you have a propane torch a little heat will expand the aluminum and break down the thread locker.

Just move it around some so as not to overheat the aluminum.
If the machine place insists I remove them and they won't budge then that's certainly worth a try.

AMBROSIA
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:57 pm

Quick update:

I have purchased the required parts to move forward.
A set of bronze bushes.
Image
A set of RS light weight lifters (51gms) tool steel.
Image
These really are fantastic quality with a price tag to match!
I thought I would check to see how much material needs to come off the lifter bore tops to give 1mm lobe clearance.
I figured check the existing clearance, add the lifter base thickness and bingo.
Got a thin piece of aluminum which I planned as a base and then I could use feeler gauges.
Image
Image
Image

No good, cam lobe hits the metal, so need a plan B.
I'm thinking dial gauge up through the lifter bore to the metal plate compared against the lobe at max lift, add the difference to the lifter base + 1mm should do it....

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Piledriver
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by Piledriver » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:46 pm

Take 30 minutes and clearance it with a burr and flap wheel.
Clean it and done.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

AMBROSIA
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:40 pm

Take 30 minutes and clearance it with a burr and flap wheel.
Clean it and done
Well I managed to get some accurate measurements with the dial gauge.

With the case closed and cam fitted I setup the dial gauge to read zero sitting on a lifter at lobe top.
Split the case and placed a flat surface under the lifter so it was level with the bore top.
Gauge read 0.25mm
The lifter base is tapered and is 3.45mm at the thickest point.
Add 1mm and I have 4.7mm as the minimum height to remove.
Of course now would be the best time to consider future cam changes and potential lift increases.
Would It be sensible to take off another 0.5mm whilst it's being done?

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Piledriver
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by Piledriver » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:56 pm

It will make a hell of a mess so i'd say +.5mm-1mm extra.
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exportbug
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by exportbug » Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:50 am

AMBROSIA wrote:Quick update:

I have purchased the required parts to move forward.
A set of bronze bushes.

A set of RS light weight lifters (51gms) tool steel.
Image
These really are fantastic quality with a price tag to match!
I thought I would check to see how much material needs to come off the lifter bore tops to give 1mm lobe clearance.
I figured check the existing clearance, add the lifter base thickness and bingo.
Got a thin piece of aluminum which I planned as a base and then I could use feeler gauges.

No good, cam lobe hits the metal, so need a plan B.
I'm thinking dial gauge up through the lifter bore to the metal plate compared against the lobe at max lift, add the difference to the lifter base + 1mm should do it....
I´m sorry to tell you that the lifters are not from RS!!! :shock: :shock:
The lifters come from http://www.tp-technologie.de
Best regards Thorsten

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