Engine build almost complete

Here's the place for info on converting to a Type V motor!
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Piledriver
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by Piledriver » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:51 am

The main thing beveling the edges accomplishes is knocking off the super hard edges.
The sharp "outside" corners are almost diamond hard, can dig in and can even chip off.
(gets nitrided from both directions)
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AMBROSIA
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:42 am

Borescope arrived today so will have a poke around this evening.
The main thing beveling the edges accomplishes is knocking off the super hard edges.
The sharp "outside" corners are almost diamond hard, can dig in and can even chip off.
(gets nitrided from both directions)
As a quality camshaft maker i'm surprised they don't do this procedure in the factory.
From what I've read there is likely to be some damage to the oil pump gears from any edge flakes that come off but will be caught by the oil filter.
Not liking the sound of this although replacing pump gears is a lot simpler than a full strip down which I am loathed to do.

buildabiggerboxer
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by buildabiggerboxer » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:07 am

Hmm, it is annoying, but If you find you do need to strip it, you will have to bite the bullet, if it's any consolation, I must have chewed up a few amo belts worth and even now days still have grief with modded motors, it sometimes comes from nowhere, wham, like my sticking inlet valve after 3 years hard use! It's always best to jump on it before cost factors increase. In my turbo days a wasser cam and lifter change was often done in about 6 hours, I do an Aircooled in about 3 or 4 hrs, key off to key on, with my race motors the dry sump pump, hardware and hoses etc are about the worst of it, but time and the needs must basis proved the fabled complete strip isn't needed, set it on #1, leave 3/4 side Head and p&l's, just pull the left rocker shaft and push rods etc to unload the cam, oil pump needs to come out, then pull all the right side hardware etc as normal.

AMBROSIA
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:24 am

set it on #1, leave 3/4 side Head and p&l's, just pull the left rocker shaft and push rods etc to unload the cam, oil pump needs to come out, then pull all the right side hardware etc as normal.
This is certainly my plan as now's the time to rectify any issues.
I do have the advantage of a dry case inside, so no oil/coolant goop dropping everywhere :lol:
Should be just enough magic glue left over to re-do the head gasket.

AMBROSIA
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:46 pm

Got the borescope going but the clarity was so poor and trying to hold a suitable viewing angle was impossible.
So, bit the bullet.
Image
Had to make a temporary 'shade tree mechanic' engine stand, but it worked fine.
Image
Had a good look at the cam lobes and other than the casting areas it looks pretty even all around.
You can run your finger firmly round the edges and not feel any cutting or sharpness.
How much should I take off the edges to be safe assuming the lobes are suitable when I check tomorrow?
Image

An old credit card works great at breaking the gasket seal to the head without damaging it :D

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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by Piledriver » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:25 am

Plastic bondo applicator works good too.

I knocked off the edge by hand with a coarse diamond hone, didn't remove much, just enough so it had a ~1mm bevel..
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buildabiggerboxer
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by buildabiggerboxer » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:51 am

Yes, as above, 1 mm is plenty and as large as you need, be careful, I run low air pressure to keep the revs down and limit any finger slip/judgement damage, tape the journals near lobes just in case, keep the stone speed down, finish off and smooth with a small oil stone, those hard lobe edges can rip through rotary stones in short order, don't forget a hot soapy scrub up and wash, then liberal WD40 and compressed air blow over.
Might be a faff to far, but You could drop the cam wheel off, cam back in and case half back on, Mark/blue up a lifter or two and drop them in, turn the cam via the oil pump aperture and take a cam lobe wipe snap shot, finger pressure on a lifter should be enough.

buildabiggerboxer
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by buildabiggerboxer » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:56 am

Just an aside with cam wheels, put extra torque on the bolts, I do 20ft/lbs, I've seen 14ft/lb quoted on cam makers web sites, taint enough, they can come loose at that, I've seen it.

AMBROSIA
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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:46 pm

Ok, beveled the edges as best I can.
Image
Used a file to carefully smooth the edges, which took a couple of hours.
Image
As suggested it was cleaned with soapy water and some wd40.
The cam wheel bolts were torqued up to 18 ft/lb but no harm in redoing to 20 to be on the safe side.

Regarding the lifter/lobe compatibility, I thought a small video would be ideal.
http://vid9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/ ... cjsx0t.mp4
It's difficult to hold the camera steady, rotate the cam and apply pressure to a pushrod, but from what I can see it looks marginal.

Thanks for the help guys, it's really appreciated :)

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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by Steve Arndt » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:44 pm

AMBROSIA wrote:
http://vid9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/ ... cjsx0t.mp4
It's difficult to hold the camera steady, rotate the cam and apply pressure to a pushrod, but from what I can see it looks marginal.

Thanks for the help guys, it's really appreciated :)
Marginal, it sure does. Appears to be wiping the edge of the follower against the lobe.

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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by fastback » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:47 pm

As BBB also suggest i put some "color" on the surface on the lifter , paint marker, blue stuff, or you can use a 1K primer to cover the contact area.(washes off easily with thinner afterwards)
then do the test as in your video. turn the cam several times the way it rotates.
the cam lobe should not wipe away all the "color" on the outside of the liftersurface.
you should see a small area in the outer part of the surface that still has color. then it is OK
if it vipes away all the color in the area the lobe faces the lifter ,it will ride on the egde

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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by fastback » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:50 pm

AMBROSIA wrote:Done some more research.
From the Web Cam site:
86b
Designed for large displacement racing engines. Works well in a off-road application. Great torque! WEB CAM mechanical lifters required. See part #00-265.
Image
For the 86C they also recommend the same lifter so I would say JC @ stateside errs on the cautious side.
Looks like this combo should be ok, but still going to check as best I can.

and i asume this quote is from the Type 4 section.?

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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:01 pm

and i asume this quote is from the Type 4 section.?
Yes, this refers to the T4 web 86b/c and solid lift combo.
I will be trying the marker pen test tomorrow to see where I stand.
If it's not compatible then I will be sourcing an 86a with the reduced lift and duration.
Will be a shame, but nothing a set of 1.4 ratio rockers won't fix.
TBH the 86a was my initial intended choice but there was no stock when I came to purchase :roll:

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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by fastback » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:08 pm

you can convert to type 1 lifters
i use some German alu bushings that presses in the WBX/type4 bores , and does not need any reaming afterwards

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Re: Engine build almost complete

Post by AMBROSIA » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:33 pm

you can convert to type 1 lifters
i use some German alu bushings that presses in the WBX/type4 bores , and does not need any reaming afterwards
I did look at getting the case machined for T1 lifters but the cost was too high.
Now that you mention this I do remember reading this somewhere as an option.
Do you also have to machine down the bore tops for lobe clearance?

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