cb dry sump pump question in WBX

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fastbus
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cb dry sump pump question in WBX

Post by fastbus » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:48 pm

Hi guys, i have a question about my turbo build as i want to use the CB dry sump pump system.

Will the oil filter cause a problem with the way the pump scavenges oil back to the tank?
Before i go to far into the installation i need to make sure that it can still filter oil.
Or should i just blank it off and run a remote filter?

I hope someone has the answer as i'm not to far from fire her up in my 1302 german looker!

cheers
Paul ;)

buildabiggerboxer
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Re: cb dry sump pump question in WBX

Post by buildabiggerboxer » Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:26 pm

My dry sump motors utilise the stock filter with a sandwich plate to accept the pressure line directly from the oil pump, this is necessary as there is no pump body port to feed the stock cases oil gallery's, other folk use a remote filter and feed the motor T1 style at the main oil gallery and block of the stock oil filter feed with a blanking plate, but that option makes no sense to me, why add more hardware, connectors, pipe and fixings when it's all there already and out of the way on the engine case? Remember to.plug the case at the old oil feed port to prevent possible case to pump body leakage.

fastbus
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Re: cb dry sump pump question in WBX

Post by fastbus » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:52 am

Thanks for your reply. Could you show me where abouts please as i don't want to guess without a better idea of what you mean
:wink:

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fastback
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Re: cb dry sump pump question in WBX

Post by fastback » Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:14 am

i do not use the CB pump but a Piper pump but asume they work the same way.
swapped out the stock pump to the drysump pump and mounted an extra cooler on the scavenge line back to the tank.
using stock oil filter and location.

fastbus
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Re: cb dry sump pump question in WBX

Post by fastbus » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:34 am

Thanks for you reply Fastback. Its a straight forward install then which is good news :wink:
Are -8 oil lines big enough or should i increase the oil lines to say -12 which will still reduce to -8 on flow and return through the pump?

Also as i need to use the oil light switch below the left hand bank for gauges, the oil level will be relatively low due to the dry sump pump reducing case oil quantity, will this make the oil switch ineffective?

Could i create an inline fitting for switches on an oil line?

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fastback
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Re: cb dry sump pump question in WBX

Post by fastback » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:18 am

The feed to the pump is advisable to get as large as posdible. I also drilled out the fitting into the pump.the scavenge side will be fine with -8 as it is sees a little bit of pressure

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fastback
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Re: cb dry sump pump question in WBX

Post by fastback » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:20 am

Just kerp a look on oil level in the case after sitting for some time if the tank i mounted high.as oil flows slowly throgh the pump. Or mount a valve on the feed. With a switch so you cant start without opening the valve

fastbus
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Re: cb dry sump pump question in WBX

Post by fastbus » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:47 am

Thanks for you info Fastback
I'm going to run up my engine with the stock shadeck oil pump to break in the new cam as its a fresh rebuild and then i will fit the dry sump pump system once i change the oil. I will drill and tap a larger fitting on the intake side of the pump.
I'll stick some pics up soon of the conversion

:wink:

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fastback
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Re: cb dry sump pump question in WBX

Post by fastback » Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:44 pm

the WBX can be picky on the oilpump as they came originally with matchedoil pump to case
most aftermarket pumps are on the small side in diameter and can suck air between the pump and case
O-ring is recomended on the pump then

buildabiggerboxer
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Re: cb dry sump pump question in WBX

Post by buildabiggerboxer » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:07 pm

Image
Here you can see the feed line to the engine from the pressure side of the D\S pump via the sandwich plate, simple and effective, if the filter was re positioned, you would feed the engine at the main oil gallery like a T1 motor. If you block the old case oil feed port as i mentioned above,you wont suffer any back feed oil pressure losses, many dont or wont bother with the most important job, even on wet sump full flow engines.
the feed line on the right of the pump is from the D/S tank, it is NOT advisable to run oil coolers or filters on this side, whatever the experts will tell you others do.
the blank plug on the right is a spare scavenge port used for accessory scavenging, say the heads or a turbo.
the front hose on the right is the scavenged oil feed from the sump back to the D/S tank, you CAN use this line for coolers or filters, tho' the CB pump wont be as versatile or have the capacity of this one. hope that helps.

fastbus
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Re: cb dry sump pump question in WBX

Post by fastbus » Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:22 am

You seem to had plenty of experience with the wasserboxer :shock: Looking through your pic!
Very good!
Are you using the Bugpack pump?
On my turbo application, the oil gallery supply for it comes off a tapped gallery from the main oil pump to filter gallery.
The fitting is a modification through a pressure switch with a brake line fitting attached to it. The oil (brake line pipe) runs down to the turbo which sit under the rear fender. Due to the turbos low level oil has to be pumped back up to the engine case.
After oil runs through the turbo it is collected in a remote sump and the is pumped back to the case, through the old oil filler gallery via an electric scavenge pump.

Do you think this oil line (brake pipe line) that supplies the turbo is big enough to cope with demand?
Do you think this oiling method for the turbo is actually reducing the performance of the main oiling supply to the internals of the engine?
Do you think i should make a separate oil supply to feed the turbo system with separate flow and return pumps?
This i think, would preserve oil temp problems that the turbo creates and also keeping the engines oil temp lower.

Cheers
Paul
:wink:

buildabiggerboxer
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Re: cb dry sump pump question in WBX

Post by buildabiggerboxer » Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:08 pm

Hi fastbus, it's an ARPM pump, but the Bugpack is a version of it, same as Autocraft too.
The oil feed I use is -3 so it's about the same as your pipe and will be fine, some folk run a restrictor in the line, but I dont see the need with my pump, I would leave the pressure feed engine fed rather than another pump! any pump failure means byebye Turbo, keep things simple as you can, just use the pump to scavenge the turbo oil. Cheers. BBB.

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58Dub
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Re: cb dry sump pump question in WBX

Post by 58Dub » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:42 pm

buildabiggerboxer wrote:Hi fastbus, it's an ARPM pump, but the Bugpack is a version of it, same as Autocraft too.
The oil feed I use is -3 so it's about the same as your pipe and will be fine, some folk run a restrictor in the line, but I dont see the need with my pump, I would leave the pressure feed engine fed rather than another pump! any pump failure means byebye Turbo, keep things simple as you can, just use the pump to scavenge the turbo oil. Cheers. BBB.
If I can ask...so to scavange from the case and turbo, and pull new oil from the tank...do you need a three stage pump?

fastbus
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Re: cb dry sump pump question in WBX

Post by fastbus » Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:33 pm

58Dub wrote:
buildabiggerboxer wrote:Hi fastbus, it's an ARPM pump, but the Bugpack is a version of it, same as Autocraft too.
The oil feed I use is -3 so it's about the same as your pipe and will be fine, some folk run a restrictor in the line, but I dont see the need with my pump, I would leave the pressure feed engine fed rather than another pump! any pump failure means byebye Turbo, keep things simple as you can, just use the pump to scavenge the turbo oil. Cheers. BBB.
If I can ask...so to scavange from the case and turbo, and pull new oil from the tank...do you need a three stage pump?
Yes, the cb is only flow and return on two stage fittings. I'm scavenging my turbo with an electric Tilton style pump

fastbus
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Re: cb dry sump pump question in WBX

Post by fastbus » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:25 am

With my research i have come to the conclusion that my cb pump isn't going to be man enough for my dry sump system.
I'm going to go with the Bugpack pump as it looks and sounds better equipped.

Is the scavenge side on this pump to aggressive to draw from the turbo?
Will the pumped oil feed to the turbo be greater than the scavenge side?
Should i combine the scavenge from the turbo with the rocker covers?
Does this interfere with the scavenge from the oil feed tank?
Will this separate scavenge return oil to the case or does it combine with the return to the tank through the pump?

Sorry for all the questions but trying to see what will work best with scavenging oil from my turbo that's sitting slightly lower than my engine case.

:wink:

Just picked up my new HX35 from the local turbo guy with smaller exhaust housing for a better spool up!
Getting there :)

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