WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

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Piledriver
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WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Piledriver » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:17 pm

I have found myself with a very rebuildable T1 engine with uncut german AS41 block (good oil pressure with stock german oil pump, vw bearingsI could probably just put it back together, it appears recent rebuilt top end with a very low mile virgin factory shortblock)

I have a std 2.1 WBX crank.
What are the options?

I have or can easily score the 2.1 style steel case thrust washers.
Can I use the BMW mains with the late WBX thrust in the #1 main location?
(similar to T4 center main adapter setup)

Should I just sell the 2.1 crank to finance a Chinese stroker ?

Should I go all T4 mains? T4 mains are cheap and plentiful ATM.
Are 1mm thrust T4 mains viable for this?
(do they exist??? or is a shim used)
If I go here I'll find an already cut case to core out to T4 main size.
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Chip Birks
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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Chip Birks » Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:44 pm

I would love to know as well.

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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by sideshow » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:36 pm

How do you plan to machine the main oil seal?
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Piledriver » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:52 pm

sideshow wrote:How do you plan to machine the main oil seal?
From memory there is an off the shelf seal that works, do not know the #
This has been done by others, but the info is spread out thinly.

Worst case is have it cut to T4 size.
It looks like the BMW bearing setup only works on std cases, and this one needs first cut... just barely, but it needs it.at #2.

Still very curious as to what is needed, actual T4 bearings may be an option if +1mm thrust ?
(not sure they make +1mm thrust T4 bearings... may need shim or late WBX style thrust?
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Passatman
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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Passatman » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:54 am

Piledriver wrote:
sideshow wrote:How do you plan to machine the main oil seal?
It looks like the BMW bearing setup only works on std cases
From what i have been reading yes the BMW bearing only works on STD case. I would love to do this setup on an ALu case. Was thinking about buying a TF1 case to go all t4 main on the crank just to get good bearings in a T1 case.

By the way does anyone know how much is for an all T4 main DPR 82 or 86mm crank.

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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Steve Arndt » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:46 am

Passatman wrote:
Piledriver wrote:
sideshow wrote:How do you plan to machine the main oil seal?


By the way does anyone know how much is for an all T4 main DPR 82 or 86mm crank.
Probably about $600. The biggest they do is 82mm I read because of the oiling holes in the welded/offset rod journals.

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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by sideshow » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:12 am

Piledriver wrote:...From memory there is an off the shelf seal that works, do not know the #
This has been done by others, but the info is spread out thinly...
Any deep link of this alleged flywheel seal?

I have a couple 1.9 cranks and bus flywheels (I love the pedal feel of a stock 1.7-1.8-1.9 sprung center and what I assume is clamping near a “stage 1”)

All I have come up with is: http://lauriepettit.co.uk/ …Originator of the Water Boxer Crank - Conversion for all Type 1 based engines …
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Piledriver » Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:33 pm

From Googling discussions about the mod using that name, looks like he just used the BMW bearing or cuts for the wasser #1 bearing and installs the 3 pc thrust as previously discussed, depending on case condition.

I could still do that and #2 if I went T4 center main as well, or just have the case bored .25mm and T4std #1.

The only part that concerns me is the machining for the thrust washers, I guess I'd have to box it all up and send it to Rocky.
The local machine shops can't spell "VW", the closest one that's decent is a 2 hour drive each way, and I'm not sure they would be familiar with it.
By the time I pay for gas and 2 round trips I might as well ship it to Rocky.

It appears that the T1 thrust can possibly be used with a shim to back up the thrust.
(The T4 bearing is thicker than the T1 case in that area?)

No idea on the seal, just saw it mentioned in one of the many threads on this.
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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Passatman » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:12 pm

Steve Arndt wrote:
Passatman wrote:
Piledriver wrote:
sideshow wrote:How do you plan to machine the main oil seal?


By the way does anyone know how much is for an all T4 main DPR 82 or 86mm crank.
Probably about $600. The biggest they do is 82mm I read because of the oiling holes in the welded/offset rod journals.

Steve yes I heard about the oiling hole and the surface on the crank journal that's why I asked bout this size crank.

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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by sideshow » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:36 pm

I don't have any three piece thrust assemblies to work with, aside from one 76mm crank.

I feel it a trick rear main seal would be nice, but with the problems with people using nice factory styled ones, I absolutely shutter at considering anything aftermarket.
Last edited by sideshow on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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pocketrocket
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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by pocketrocket » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:25 pm

You will have to use a T-1 brg set for the # 2,3 & 4 brgs. And a set of WBX brgs you will only use the #1 brg. The rear of the case will have to be machined for the notches for the thrust shims and the stock thrust on the case narrowed and machined for the fit of the O.D. of the thrust shims the the 2.1 WBX size. I can machine the case for the stock WBX T-4 seal as well. Rocky

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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Piledriver » Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:51 am

pocketrocket wrote:You will have to use a T-1 brg set for the # 2,3 & 4 brgs. And a set of WBX brgs you will only use the #1 brg. The rear of the case will have to be machined for the notches for the thrust shims and the stock thrust on the case narrowed and machined for the fit of the O.D. of the thrust shims the the 2.1 WBX size. I can machine the case for the stock WBX T-4 seal as well. Rocky
Thank you, Rocky, you have a PM.

I imagine I could use a T4 #3 bearing in lieu of the WBX#1?
T4 Mahle bearings are $45/set (plus I have several asstd sets), WBX not so much.

Still trying to decide how much to spend on a motor I don't have a car for at the moment :lol:
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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by buildabiggerboxer » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:46 am

As per Rocky's reply, We just use the bullet proof 3 piece Wassers no1 bearing and thrusts, why use anything else? Laurie also goes with it, I get seals over the counter at bearing dealers, it fits right in, no machining, just take along your f/w and a T1 seal, it's slightly narrower than stock T1 seals, but I get no grief from them. Regards, BBB.

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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Piledriver » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:07 pm

Good to know on the seal, I thought I had read such an animal existed.

I only ask as #3 of a T4 set is basically the same size as #1 of the Vanagon set.
Looks like Vanagon bearings are currently available at a reasonable price, so probably NBD.
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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by pocketrocket » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:43 pm

The special bolt in seal no machine work is Chicago Rawhide # 29513 Rocky

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