WBX heads on an aircooled autocraft cased engine?

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930
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WBX heads on an aircooled autocraft cased engine?

Post by 930 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:55 am

Hello all,

I am new to the forum and a newbie in WBX-world so hence I am asking a bit of guidance from the old hands so to speak. I have tried to search but did not find an answer to my question (if it is there apologies for not finding it)

Is it possible to run WBX heads on otherwise aircooled engine by welding "extra / not needed" water holes in the head? Has anyone done this? Is it a totally idiotic idea, possible to do and / or worth exploring further?

The idea is to use WBX heads on an Autocraft 4-piece case drilled for 96.5mm cylinders. Head stud pattern is pretty damn close and as the idea would be to use the car on the street as well I have learned that Autocraft 910 heads are not really good for street due to lack of / small cooling fins and as far as I know WBX heads have quite nice potential also.

Any other thoughts on this or is there an alternative approach I should look into? Is the easiest approach just to modify 910 heads for water cooling?

(edit: I have posted this question @ thesamba and I got a suggestion to post the question here also)

930
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Re: WBX heads on an aircooled autocraft cased engine?

Post by 930 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:15 pm

OK wow.

I was expecting quite a bit more than nothing. @ Samba I got loads of responses which have already helped me.

This forum seems to be quite dead...

R.I.P

ED2.4
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Re: WBX heads on an aircooled autocraft cased engine?

Post by ED2.4 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:45 pm

Hi,it's not a hotline ! good speed ..... :roll:

E_bug
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Re: WBX heads on an aircooled autocraft cased engine?

Post by E_bug » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:40 pm

Anything is possible.

Why not get cheaper more street friendly heads and work them out insted of getting a water pump and a radiator setup to your car? :?:

And the forum is not dead btw.
Patience your 1/2 water cooled vehicle is not about to run anytime soon. :wink:
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Ian Godfrey
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Re: WBX heads on an aircooled autocraft cased engine?

Post by Ian Godfrey » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:56 pm

so right, its not a hotline, peeps here are dotted all over the world and some have jobs!
and the people here are polite and smart :)

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pocketrocket
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Re: WBX heads on an aircooled autocraft cased engine?

Post by pocketrocket » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:02 pm

930, What forum on the samba did you get information that helped? I would like to see what whey have said. Rocky

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Marc
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Re: WBX heads on an aircooled autocraft cased engine?

Post by Marc » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:14 pm

930 wrote:...as far as I know WBX heads have quite nice potential also...
What kind of chamber volume do they have, though? Are you planning on using dished pistons to keep the C.R. realistic?

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Piledriver
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Re: WBX heads on an aircooled autocraft cased engine?

Post by Piledriver » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:42 am

Factory WBX chambers are 12-15cc, (the 2.1s are the larger) but valves can be sunk and chambers opened to ~40+cc w/o losing all squish.
"unsunk" ,the intake valve face protrudes from the deck surface w/o sinking, so with a lot of cam, plan on huge dishes if only for valve relief.

Is the Autocraft case may already be set up for 4" jugs.(?)
If not, Rocky can set you up.

The WBX heads will need a LOT of $$$ work to make equivalent power to many "shelf" heads.

Putting water jackets on some 910s, SCAT splitports or CB CEs (and making it work well) would likely be a far easier way to get from A>B, assuming the latter 2 types can be had in 4" pattern.

~Anything is possible, Subaru 4 valve and 911 heads have been grafted on.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

930
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Re: WBX heads on an aircooled autocraft cased engine?

Post by 930 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:21 pm

Sorry for a late reply:

started here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewto ... highlight=
pocketrocket wrote:930, What forum on the samba did you get information that helped? I would like to see what whey have said. Rocky

930
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Re: WBX heads on an aircooled autocraft cased engine?

Post by 930 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:25 pm

Hi,

No it is not opened up for 4" jugs. The whole idea is to use WBX heads as the bolt pattern on those heads is practically the same as in Autocraft 96.5mm case.

I was supposed to get a WBX head last week so I could take a more thorough look at it but haven't received the head yet. Need to look at the chambers etc. of course properly.

Based on the feedback what I have gotten so far it seems like it is a doable - that being said anything is doable depending in time and $$$ spent.

Piledriver wrote:Factory WBX chambers are 12-15cc, (the 2.1s are the larger) but valves can be sunk and chambers opened to ~40+cc w/o losing all squish.
"unsunk" ,the intake valve face protrudes from the deck surface w/o sinking, so with a lot of cam, plan on huge dishes if only for valve relief.

Is the Autocraft case may already be set up for 4" jugs.(?)
If not, Rocky can set you up.

The WBX heads will need a LOT of $$$ work to make equivalent power to many "shelf" heads.

Putting water jackets on some 910s, SCAT splitports or CB CEs (and making it work well) would likely be a far easier way to get from A>B, assuming the latter 2 types can be had in 4" pattern.

~Anything is possible, Subaru 4 valve and 911 heads have been grafted on.

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pocketrocket
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Re: WBX heads on an aircooled autocraft cased engine?

Post by pocketrocket » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:33 pm

I guess I would ask myself why would you want to use a Autocraft case when the Factory diecast waterboxer block is much better? Just machine it and save the Autocraft for a air cooled. Rocky

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fastback
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Re: WBX heads on an aircooled autocraft cased engine?

Post by fastback » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:15 pm

lokked briefly at your tread at TS and here's what i did with my WBX heads
welded and plugged the holes facing down and run water in /out the 2 other big holes at the top.
run an small electricpump and a small radiator to cool the heads.
it was on a 2,1 L "oxy" using stock WBX valves , rods ,pistons crank etc and type4 sylinders.
the heads seem to flow well as the engine run very good with a VZ 25 cam 10:1 compression E85 and megasquirt+ eDIS spark
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Re: WBX heads on an aircooled autocraft cased engine?

Post by Passatman » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:40 am

Fastback did you have to use a lot of cylinder shim with the t4 liners to get the desired compression height on the pistons. Also what was the power like on this engine.

930
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Re: WBX heads on an aircooled autocraft cased engine?

Post by 930 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:38 pm

This project has returned from quite a long hiatus ;)

Any tips on which add-on material to use when TIG welding the water holes in the heads?

In other words what alu material is the head?

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Re: WBX heads on an aircooled autocraft cased engine?

Post by Piledriver » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:33 pm

Here's a thread with some nice pics of wbx heads with the sunk valve seat mods and ~reasonable chambers
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 6#p1208146

I'm pretty sure the heads are typical 356 alloy.
Do all your welding before any machining for new seats/guides
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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