Wasser bitching
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Wasser bitching
Ok, I have been a mech. for many years. I always wondered why my father told me to send them back to Germany. Now I know. I have a 2.1, new qsc pistons 96mm. New bearings, rebuilt rods, hv oilpump. Cleaned and primed/painted all components. Finally found some n-s bolts and guess what? Over 1mm off tdc on the pistons, 2# main bearing reading .004 on the plasti. So I would like to get a new crank and guess no such monster.... The book says the crank is within specs. I don't buy it. So do I tell the nice man who loves the Vanagon to beat it? So I will not have to be married to it for the rest of my life? Or talk him in to getting some 78mm rods and a crank (if there is one cheaper than go westy). I found a complete kit for 700-800 bucks but I think it is for the type iv...scat I think has one but good lord the money. So am I missing something or is there no 2.1 cranks with rear thrust ring? Or do I have to buy a machine shop now... I have been obsessed with this motor for a good couple months. I like the idea of a having a motor in your van ,you can turn into a airplane motor.
Please any advise? I would like to keep the crank and rods and build a air cooled soon...
I read the forum and im hoping there is new stuff out!!!!!
I live in Kodiak, AK its a island and getting things shipped here is horrible. Its not the end of the world but I can see it from here!!!
Thanks, Help me from Loosing love for the wbx
Please any advise? I would like to keep the crank and rods and build a air cooled soon...
I read the forum and im hoping there is new stuff out!!!!!
I live in Kodiak, AK its a island and getting things shipped here is horrible. Its not the end of the world but I can see it from here!!!
Thanks, Help me from Loosing love for the wbx
- Piledriver
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Re: Wasser bitching
Welcome to the STF!
Getting the crank reground should be NBD... How's the case bore for size?
Also --Did you have the rods rebuilt or just put in new bolts?
(You cannot just put in new bolts, it will probably not go well)
The stock rods are horrible... big ends on 2.1s go all egg shaped at high mileage. that's largely why they lose pressure/toss rods.
The way you are measuring it it's ~ bore is too big as the crank journal being too small.
You need to know which is wrong before going any further.
I have a new set of those QSC P&L, but I have decided to use them as ashtrays and rering the 250K Mahles, as they check out better.
Getting the crank reground should be NBD... How's the case bore for size?
Also --Did you have the rods rebuilt or just put in new bolts?
(You cannot just put in new bolts, it will probably not go well)
The stock rods are horrible... big ends on 2.1s go all egg shaped at high mileage. that's largely why they lose pressure/toss rods.
The way you are measuring it it's ~ bore is too big as the crank journal being too small.
You need to know which is wrong before going any further.
I have a new set of those QSC P&L, but I have decided to use them as ashtrays and rering the 250K Mahles, as they check out better.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:44 pm
Re: Wasser bitching
thanks got van cafe ... I know... But I was desperate to get together. The crank I cant ship would be would be as much as new crank. The local machinist is fucking up what I bring him and I owe him 75 bucks.... Want NEW crank lol. I cant believe I cant find rods or a crank... If I am right 78mm crank would bring the pistons little over cyl. right? With the stock length rods. Who makes rods that will fit? I looked at arp and the rods need played with.
I found 78mm crank for 300 buck forged. type 1 will fit but I need all type one bearings and a special one for the rear and I would have to change fly , seals and every thing. It is a Pain in the ass...
I found 78mm crank for 300 buck forged. type 1 will fit but I need all type one bearings and a special one for the rear and I would have to change fly , seals and every thing. It is a Pain in the ass...
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- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:44 pm
Re: Wasser bitching
I under stand but Im stuck and it is a job for a good friend.. I found the parts on the net new stuff...Didnt think it would be all this..lol. But I have learned a valuble leason.... It should be mine to be doing this too. Now as for the large pistons can u rec. the cheapest and reliable combo? scat rods will hold...He will shift a little over 4000 should be fine. Right??
Sorry about rant was up all night messing with this problem. Ill order .10 over sized bearings have the crank mach. and I need to get longer rods. was it 5.7 ?
Sorry about rant was up all night messing with this problem. Ill order .10 over sized bearings have the crank mach. and I need to get longer rods. was it 5.7 ?
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- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:44 pm
Re: Wasser bitching
Just read they changed the china copy to a higher cc. If the rods are changed it would take the compression up to 10.55 the cc of the pistons are 48.5cc. Now to the calculator...
- Piledriver
- Moderator
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- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
Re: Wasser bitching
You can buy a decent crank outright from DMS or Demello in socal, either will be great quality.
..but the 2.1 WBX core are expensive.
Never underestimate the US mail for shipping.
...Or overestimate how well you need to pack.
Copy tencentlifes setup, SCAT 5.4 (or whatever, depending on piston/stroke) rods with the small ends rebushed to 24mm if needed.
I did the CB I beam rods, but the SCAT rods look ... well designed, either has plenty of small end meat for the 24mm pin.
Spend the money for the Gowesty Wisecos and Rebored German cylinders, cry once.
If you have AMC heads, they need rebuilt with all new valves/seats/guides/springs/keepers/rocker studs
(and that's if you take them out of the box new)
Gowesty offers heads with some work done and makes a lot of noise about it, but I'm not sure they replace everything they need to.
(I have slept since I last looked at it)
..but the 2.1 WBX core are expensive.
Never underestimate the US mail for shipping.
...Or overestimate how well you need to pack.
Copy tencentlifes setup, SCAT 5.4 (or whatever, depending on piston/stroke) rods with the small ends rebushed to 24mm if needed.
I did the CB I beam rods, but the SCAT rods look ... well designed, either has plenty of small end meat for the 24mm pin.
Spend the money for the Gowesty Wisecos and Rebored German cylinders, cry once.
If you have AMC heads, they need rebuilt with all new valves/seats/guides/springs/keepers/rocker studs
(and that's if you take them out of the box new)
Gowesty offers heads with some work done and makes a lot of noise about it, but I'm not sure they replace everything they need to.
(I have slept since I last looked at it)
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
- fusername
- Posts: 6806
- Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:26 am
Re: Wasser bitching
throw out the QSCs, the pistons fall apart like cottage cheese in a couple hundred miles in my experience. junk junk junk. As for the clearence, it sounds like your case is in need of an align bore. if you take jsut the main bearing and pop int into the case, does it pop in or just sit in the saddle? It should be an interference fit and take a bit of a tug to remove. bigbore on thesamba is up your way, isnt he? you should msg him, if he is close enough maybe he can help ya?
give a man a watch and he'll allways know what time it is. give him two and he can never be sure again.
Things are rarely just crazy enough to work, but they're frequently just crazy enough to fail hilariously.
Things are rarely just crazy enough to work, but they're frequently just crazy enough to fail hilariously.
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- Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:01 am
Re: Wasser bitching
All of this has been gone over a number of times on this and other forums. In building and engine its NOT just putting all the parts in the right place.
Checking your crankshaft with a micrometer it may need to be reground to 10 on the mains and you can have the crank grinder bring the tolerance to a bit tighter, and to check the block bearing bores without the bearings in the block and with the bearings in is a HUGE part of doing it right.
Same gos for the rods its something that has to be done to build engines and know the tolerance. As far as the QSC pistons & cylinders go. I have used over 15 sets now and they work fine the rings are not the very best and I do replace them with better 1st & 2nd groove rings.
I build engines for customers that what a nice WBX engine.
And yes the cofab & QSC pistons have the pins 1mm lower than stock. I make a rod set that corrects that by moving the piston pin up 1mm ( see the samba for the rods & many other WBX parts I sell) they ( the 96mm QSCs ) also are very nice if you want to use a stroked 78mm DPR crank. This makes a 2260cc engine. Or you can remove 1mm from the tops and use a 80mm DPR crank and have a 2316cc engine. All using the QSC pistons.
The seats in the new AMC heads are fine they should be checked & lapped its the exhaust valves that are not so good. I replace them with the TRW ex. valves on all my engines along with checking and lapping the valves to the seats . I have had to regrind a few seats. I could go on about what you may need in building a NICE engine but that's what I do in my shop for a living. Don't be down try to learn what you need to do to build your engine right. Rocky
Checking your crankshaft with a micrometer it may need to be reground to 10 on the mains and you can have the crank grinder bring the tolerance to a bit tighter, and to check the block bearing bores without the bearings in the block and with the bearings in is a HUGE part of doing it right.
Same gos for the rods its something that has to be done to build engines and know the tolerance. As far as the QSC pistons & cylinders go. I have used over 15 sets now and they work fine the rings are not the very best and I do replace them with better 1st & 2nd groove rings.
I build engines for customers that what a nice WBX engine.
And yes the cofab & QSC pistons have the pins 1mm lower than stock. I make a rod set that corrects that by moving the piston pin up 1mm ( see the samba for the rods & many other WBX parts I sell) they ( the 96mm QSCs ) also are very nice if you want to use a stroked 78mm DPR crank. This makes a 2260cc engine. Or you can remove 1mm from the tops and use a 80mm DPR crank and have a 2316cc engine. All using the QSC pistons.
The seats in the new AMC heads are fine they should be checked & lapped its the exhaust valves that are not so good. I replace them with the TRW ex. valves on all my engines along with checking and lapping the valves to the seats . I have had to regrind a few seats. I could go on about what you may need in building a NICE engine but that's what I do in my shop for a living. Don't be down try to learn what you need to do to build your engine right. Rocky
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- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:44 pm
Re: Wasser bitching
Thanks for all the input. I just got off the phone with the guy at dpr....650 for a 78mm crank shaft. chevy journal bad idea..... And I did mic everything. Does anyone know the oil clearance specs? All the main bearings are nice and tight fit. They plasti gauge crank to main at .004. Little sloppy. I was hoping that it would be much tighter but it is what it is. I guess I was starting to think it would be a easy build. Machining is a option on the crank but the pistons screwed that idea. So back to the drawing board will post pics when I get closer to completion.
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Re: Wasser bitching
Yes, 78mm DPR VW journal is the way to go. You can use stock rebuilt VW WBX rods as long as they have the rod bolt upgrade. What's the problem with the pistons? If DPR is doing to do the crank have them grind the mains to the clearance you want. Just have them stroke it to 78 and regrind the mains to .010 and the rods to std. Don't need to counterweight it. You must be buying it outright for the $650 price.
- Piledriver
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Re: Wasser bitching
Rocky, do you sell the "proper" ring sets for the 95.5 QSCs?
(main reason i gave up on them)
(main reason i gave up on them)
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
-
- Posts: 389
- Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:01 am
Re: Wasser bitching
The only QSC I use are 96mm. Rocky
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- Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:01 am
Re: Wasser bitching
The 95.5 p&cs are not QSC they are AA and have hastings rings.
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- Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:01 am
Re: Wasser bitching
The 95.5s have the piston pin in the correct location.
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- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:44 pm
Re: Wasser bitching
Hello got the piston displacment at 50-52ml for the dome of the piston. Can any one help? I am shipping crank to dpr and getting mains resized to .10 under and stroked. To 78mm I need to know what the commpression will be can anyone help? I have my daughter and I cant spend time calculating or in the garage dorking around...lol. Thanks for all the help so far!!!!