All Torque - 1956 Oval Turbo Wasserboxer Update...

Here's the place for info on converting to a Type V motor!
Matt Keene
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 1:01 am

All Torque - 1956 Oval Turbo Wasserboxer Update...

Post by Matt Keene »

It's been a while, but there has been progress. Marco Mansi kindly came down and helped with the wiring and ECU mapping. We worked 30 hours in two days and got the Oval to the rolling road. A massive thanks from me to Marco as he is such a top fella. Absolute genius with spaghetti and ECUs. Big up to Si and Gem at RK Engineering for the dyno work.

We had a couple of issues on the rollers. Firstly, my alternator is not man enough to run all of the electrical crap on my car, so the voltage dropped down in to the 11s. Not good for a decent spark. Secondly, my CNC throttle pedal snapped on the dyno whilst at wide open throttle at full rpm on a power run. As you can imagine, pandemonium ensued, but luckily I had fitted a battery cut off pull switch on the right rear corner and I was able to kill the power before the motor blew up! Anyway, we carried on with a makeshift hand operated throttle cable. That was a little tricky, but it worked.

We made 14 power runs in total. First runs were to map fuel at 13 psi of boost. All good, over 300 horsepower. We then started to increase the boost by increments of 2 psi and corresponding fuel increase. Each time the power went up by around 20 hp. At 18 psi the motor put out 414.9 bhp. After 18 psi, however, it became apparent that the ignition system was not up to the task of dealing with the power. Maybe it was the low voltage, not sure. Anyhow, we tried all sorts: changing plugs and closing plug gaps, but the ignition kept misfiring above 18 psi of boost. Back it down to 18 psi and all was good again.

We did have one run at 22 psi that did not have spark failure. Bhp went up to 457, but as we couldn't replicate this with another run due to misfires, we can't really say if the power reading was on the money or not. It looks like we are going to step up to a CDI ignition system shortly, so the plan of running 30 psi of boost may become a reality. I reckon that might be a go for next year though, as 400 bhp is still going to make me soil my boxer shorts ;D. I need to learn how to drive the car first...

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AMBROSIA
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Post by AMBROSIA »

Awesome, any vids :?:
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fastback
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Post by fastback »

nice!!
engine specs ?? :)
buildabiggerboxer
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Post by buildabiggerboxer »

well done on your work so far, but your misfire may well be a simple screening issue, even in the area i see in the pics there are possibilities
for interference around the injector/ plug lead proximity's, cant see the h.t connectors, but often culprits, they must be a fully screened type. they're also very sensitive to spark plug selection, im behind on currant plug developments and numbers, but i found a cosworth plug reliable with a stable spark, champion C505C , but it was hard to find. i had ground electrodes moving around with ngk's, the champions where sound.
well done again.
Best regards, BBB.
thescientist
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Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:31 am

Rolling road

Post by thescientist »

Fantastic results! I'm in Cornwall and need a rolling road, where did you go? I want to map my turbo engine. Thanks

Peter
marcotheturbosteamengine
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Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 12:01 am

Re: All Torque - 1956 Oval Turbo Wasserboxer Update...

Post by marcotheturbosteamengine »

(matt keen)
A brief update...
Well, Marco has been down visiting for a week eating me out of house and home as usual! ;D. Pulled the motor from the car for a spring freshen up. Marco set about stripping it down to check for any problems. There was an issue with the lobes of the cam slightly flatting off, so the cam was replaced along with a new set of lifters. The valve springs were also replaced along with a full set of engine bearings. All looking good!
Back in the car it was time to hook up the MSD DIS2 I had lurking in a box under the bench. Time for a trip to the rolling road and a full remap and increase in boost pressure. Firstly, there was a couple of issues that needed ironing out. The software on the Wolf Ecu had a couple of glitches. Firstly, my second set of injectors has not been working at all, even though the laptop says they are! Secondly, deep in the software is a boost limit engine cut system that has somehow switched itself on! This was the reason why my car had this strange misfire last year on every run up the quarter mile. An upgrade to the latest Wolf software patched these bugs and we could finally go past 18 psi on the dyno. Up to 20 psi the power was increasing by 10 hp per psi of boost as it did last year, but as soon as we reached 22 psi the turbo got into its groove and started hitting its efficiency range. At 25 psi we called it a day because it had made some serious power for a 2.1 liter motor and we didn't want a pile of scrap scattered around the floor. The net result? 573 horsepower (503 hp at the wheels!) and 440 ft/lbs of torque! OMG! Interestingly, with the mapping so much better lower down the engine now makes so much more hp at lower rpm. At 5,000 rpm, the engine is making nearly 200 hp more than it did last year!
Big up to Marco for the engine work and mapping - once again the genius has delivered the goods! You da man Big Dog! 8) 8) 8)

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fastback
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Re: All Torque - 1956 Oval Turbo Wasserboxer Update...

Post by fastback »

:shock:
Joe vw
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Re: All Torque - 1956 Oval Turbo Wasserboxer Update...

Post by Joe vw »

That's unreal, what drives me crazy is people won't even consider a wasserboxer due to the fear of the cooling system and will go to crazy lengths to go back to aircooled.
Looking at your setup it appears you could easily street drive it in traffic. Is this a track only car or is it street driven?
With so many choosing to go to Subaru this forum has been dead, hopefully my new cooling system will encourage others, I realize It still needs testing.

This has been another much needed boost, good job! Keep us posted
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fusername
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Re: All Torque - 1956 Oval Turbo Wasserboxer Update...

Post by fusername »

i still stand and say I will never concert, but I am sure this thread aught be pronounced "vroom"
give a man a watch and he'll allways know what time it is. give him two and he can never be sure again.

Things are rarely just crazy enough to work, but they're frequently just crazy enough to fail hilariously.
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Piledriver
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Re: All Torque - 1956 Oval Turbo Wasserboxer Update...

Post by Piledriver »

573 horsepower (503 hp at the wheels!) and 440 ft/lbs of torque
500 RWHP in an 1800 lb car. :twisted:
Ohhellyeah!
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
marcotheturbosteamengine
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Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 12:01 am

Re: All Torque - 1956 Oval Turbo Wasserboxer Update...

Post by marcotheturbosteamengine »

the car is 1620lb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yea its gona be quick, if he can get it to stick!!!
the motor would make more power but I stopped there(its only got 3/8 bolts Scat H beams!),
its was making over 25hp for every psi of boost!!!
i havent had a motor blow on the dyno yet and i dont intend too :O
Matt Keene
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Re: All Torque - 1956 Oval Turbo Wasserboxer Update...

Post by Matt Keene »

I reckon I might be in for shock the moment I press the second button on the dual stage boost controller and hit 25 psi! Marco, you da Big Dog!
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fastback
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Re: All Torque - 1956 Oval Turbo Wasserboxer Update...

Post by fastback »

are u atending the SCC event in Norway so we can enjoy even more turbocharged WBX's there :P
AMBROSIA
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Re: All Torque - 1956 Oval Turbo Wasserboxer Update...

Post by AMBROSIA »

Still a few of us die hard wbx fans watching this forum :wink:
buildabiggerboxer
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Re: All Torque - 1956 Oval Turbo Wasserboxer Update...

Post by buildabiggerboxer »

Joe vw wrote:That's unreal, what drives me crazy is people won't even consider a wasserboxer due to the fear of the cooling system and will go to crazy lengths to go back to aircooled
Amazes me too! the water jacket is the key to the great longitudinal strength of the wasser case, then it gets put to the sword, one of the key reasons why you don't need case dowels or ever see a pounded centre main, we all know about the thermal efficiency of coolant,this allows the rediculous boost levels wassers can tolerate, and we haven't started yet, the bad news? im coming back and im building a new motor with a turbo (or two) ...come on over guys, wish you were here, the wassers cool!!
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