WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

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sideshow
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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by sideshow » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:17 pm

Wasser 1.9l mains (they fit the 2.1l crankside) are the same as beetle, only the #1 is 21mm thrust 60mm x 70mm (beetle is 22x55x65). My quest for a local (well the pacific northwest) guy to machine the thrust on a beetle case to fit that came up empty.

Rocky understandably is an advocate for the type-5 conversion and isn’t setup to do that.

I asked precisionalloy/TF-1 about doing that mod to one of his cases new. It sounds possible, but he wasn’t ready to tool up for that.

The BMW bearing also sounds like a dead end, because of the lack of a thrust version. I don't have the skill or desire to move the thrust location.
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Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Piledriver » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:29 pm

The other option is convert to a late WBX thrust setup with the steel thrust plates.
Then the BMW bearing is back in play as the third part.
That should be relatively straightforward, as it just has to be flat/parallel and reasonably centered.
I'ts certainly easier to do than the "center thrust" mod they do on flanged t1 cranks.

There is IIRC an adapter seal that is T1 OD and T4 ID, although the thrust plates may need the larger hole.

It's been done, just need to find a link...

If I was going to do all that... I'd likely go all T4 mains/BMW bearings and an 80mm WBX crank from DPR.
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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by sideshow » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:14 pm

Don't have any 2.1 cores (and have never seen that that superior thrust arrangement).
My target is the stock 210/215 clutch cover, soft pedal, sprung center, and good clamping.

Even the lauriepettit uk site appears NLA
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Piledriver » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:18 pm

I proposed it because it will be much easier/cheaper to implement, not because it was better (but it is, BTW)
The bore won't need cut and you can use the BMW bearing. You can buy the shims...
Rocky might even be able to set you up.
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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Bruce.m » Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:19 pm

I'm fairly sure Laurie has retired.

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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by sideshow » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:41 pm

I spoke to Rocky in meat space saturday, he was sort of warm to that. It isn't that I wouldn't follow his lead, I don't have those parts. I do agree with him that the type-5 is the answer to any type-1 in either OEM or aftermarket upgrade.

I've never seen that thrust arrangement, feel free to send me a sample or two.
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by sideshow » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:42 pm

Wait a second, one can quit? I assumed that air cooled affliction was a life/death sentence...or is this just a minor dropout until the kids are older?
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Bruce.m » Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:55 am

He's old & not in the best of health so retired from the engine building business a few years ago. Met him a few times over the years. Was always recommending reusing part worn original parts rather than the poorer quality replacements (since the 90's!).
Was driving a bug engine of his recently. 1776 with wbx crank. Must be at least 15yrs since he put it together. Was split last year to sort out a oil seep at the oil pump and it also got a new flywheel (type4 conversion flywheel using a slimmer oil seal to fit the T1 bore).

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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Piledriver » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:34 am

sideshow wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:41 pm
I spoke to Rocky in meat space saturday, he was sort of warm to that. It isn't that I wouldn't follow his lead, I don't have those parts. I do agree with him that the type-5 is the answer to any type-1 in either OEM or aftermarket upgrade.

I've never seen that thrust arrangement, feel free to send me a sample or two.
I don't have any spares, but here's what they look like, the tang prevents rotation.
They are not even remotely expensive in England...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TYPE-25-Thrust- ... 1422199637
Stick the BMW bearing in the case, with the inside of the web machined for one of these, add a notch for the other one on the outside, set your endplay and go. I can get dimensions off a dead case i have if you need.

The other thing is the case thrusts just have to be parallel and center the thrust washers... If its not to "spec" use thicker/extra thrust shims.
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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Dan keyser » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:12 pm

Hi I have a 1900 washerboxer and wane build a performance oxyboxer but where do I start I know I have to remove the water jacket and sleaves but what sleaves do I fit

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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Passatman » Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:33 pm

You can use the T1 sleeves but they will have to be shorten to fit the block, also you will have to use spigot adapters since the hole in the case is 100mm and the t1 liner at the bottom of the liner may be 96mm or 97mm.

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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Passatman » Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:35 pm

Oh i forgot. You can also use the t4 liners which just drop right in but the t1 heads will have to be opened up if they can.

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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Piledriver » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:49 pm

Passatman wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:35 pm
Oh i forgot. You can also use the t4 liners which just drop right in but the t1 heads will have to be opened up if they can.
The T4 liners are less than optimal as the T4 studs don't line up with WBX or T1 stud location and require a metric assload of clearancing for the jugs to work.

You also cannot get the good Mahle jugs for a sane price for T4s.

Adapt it for T1 jugs is usually recommended.
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Re: WBX 2.1 crank in T1 case options?

Post by Passatman » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:06 am

Yes pile i know that the t4 liners don't line up but they can be made to based on what one member here did a couple years ago when he did a build with waterboxer heads and aircooled sleeves. It wasn't a direct bolt on and go but it worked with some machining.

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