1916 Top end rebuild - what should I look out for?

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Dean...
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1916 Top end rebuild - what should I look out for?

Post by Dean... » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:25 am

Hey!

Ever since I had rain go down the carbs to fill up the cylinders, the engine has never ran right. I did end up getting it going pretty well, but I didn't go great, and then I've somehow managed to spring quite a big oil leak, so I'm in the process of replacing the pistons, cylinders and rings, along with whatever else I come across.

A new 1916 cylinder kit is waiting to be installed, and I've pulled the motor and finally got the gland nut off; that was quite a mission!!!

End float will be checked, but I'm hopeful it will be fine as I can't notice any movement. I was going to use Teflon buttons instead of the circlips, but have decided to not go that way, unless someone can convince me otherwise.

I plan to just pull the old top end off, and replace it. The bottom end should be good, there was never any knocking or any other signs of issues, and the previous rebuild was done by a very reputable guy here in Australia and all top quality parts form the bottom end.

I'm hoping others here can make suggestions as to what I should look out for....

I also have a couple specific questions:

While I'm at it, should I replace the oil relief valves? Should I take off the oil pump cover and give it a good clean? Currently this sends oil to an external oil filter. When I eventually remove and replace the oil cooler seals, what is a good way to ensure the cooler is flushed clean?

I think that's it for questions right now

Thanks in advance!ImageImageImage

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Dean...
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Re: 1916 Top end rebuild - what should I look out for?

Post by Dean... » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:52 am

Another question I've come up with after reading heaps of the engine build threads..... Should I do anything with/to the oil pump? Clean it, check any measurements, replace pump cover gasket?

I think I will replace the pressure relief pistons and springs. While I have the engine apart I was going to wash the internals with lots of diesel fuel.

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Dean...
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Re: 1916 Top end rebuild - what should I look out for?

Post by Dean... » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:20 pm

Ok... With the absence of any advice from the experts here, I plan to follow through with my suggestions.

With regards to the cooler, I will use lots of degreaser to flush it, then I will let it dry for a day. Then I will flush it with some diesel fuel before letting it dry again.

I will clean the oil lines to the external oil filter the same way. I plan to remove the oil pump cover and clean it all with diesel. I don't have a new gasket, so I plan to sparingly use a little sealant.

The flywheel is off, but I wish I had checked the end float before removing it. I'm now wondering if the next step should be to install the new seal on the crank and reinstall the flywheel so I can check the gap, before I spend I heap of time on the cylinders and heads. I would hate to later get to the flywheel and find that there is just too much play and have to tear down the whole engine.... Still thinking about which way I should go.

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Dean...
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Re: 1916 Top end rebuild - what should I look out for?

Post by Dean... » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:41 am

I think I have an issue......

The possible end play have been a concern of mine. I've ordered a tool to measure this which will arrive tomorrow morning, but in the meantime I did a 'poor man's check' and I reckon there could be 2-3mm of play.

I took a video, you can find it here: https://youtu.be/C8gK-fsEcMI

I'll check it properly tomorrow when the part arrives.

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Dean...
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Re: 1916 Top end rebuild - what should I look out for?

Post by Dean... » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:27 am

I posted about the movement on Facebook, and received a response. Do you agree?Image

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66brm
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Re: 1916 Top end rebuild - what should I look out for?

Post by 66brm » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:25 am

You need the flywheel on and torqued to accurately check the end play

heli-easy
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1916 Top end rebuild - what should I look out for?

Post by heli-easy » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:03 pm

If you are going this far why not replace the main bearings and cam bearings? Also a better cam and new valve lifters. Which are required if you do change the cam.
Also get an engine rebuild book. Also a "How to Hot Rod a VW Engine". Has lots of info on upgrades that are not too expensive and a rebuild manual will give you instructions for all the wear limit checks.
Its all super easy to do if you just do one thing at a time.

If you go to 1916 size there are a lot of things you should do to match the engine to that power. For instance bigger venturis in your carbs, dog house cooler etc. which the Hot Rodding book can guide you through.

Without a better cam and larger valves, i would not suggest anything bigger than a 1641cc piston kit.

If you can afford it, buy new heads. Even mild CB performance heads are pretty rad on a slightly bigger motor. Without bigger valves in your head that big cylinder kit may give you some carb tuning issues later.


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Dean...
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Re: 1916 Top end rebuild - what should I look out for?

Post by Dean... » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:18 pm

Thanks heaps for your reply!

I should have explained that I'm going 1916 because that's what it is now. It already has a mild cam along with twin 44 Webers. It's also got a few other good parts.

I downloaded the book you suggested, but I didn't realise it had what you described, so I'll go now and check it out!

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Dean...
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Re: 1916 Top end rebuild - what should I look out for?

Post by Dean... » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:33 pm

that's not the book I downloaded... I will see if I can get it from somewhere.

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Dean...
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Re: 1916 Top end rebuild - what should I look out for?

Post by Dean... » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:37 pm

Heads are off! I'm taking them to a workshop to have the exhaust valves replaced. I was surprised to find they are only 32mm, but the inlet valves are substantially larger.

I found that the valves had lash caps on them. Will the inlet valves have to have the same ones back on them when I put it all back together?

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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: 1916 Top end rebuild - what should I look out for?

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:57 pm

Dean, I agree with heli-easy. If you are going this far and finding this much go all the way otherwise what you don't cover will come back to haunt you; almost a guarantee that it will. I think I would full flow it at the same time and add an oil-filter.

Lee

Dean...
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Re: 1916 Top end rebuild - what should I look out for?

Post by Dean... » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:12 pm

Thank you to those who have responded

Nothing would please me more than to do everything in the motor, but my previous employer recently made me redundant, so my wife has gone back to work. With the Beetle off the road, she has to use the only car to get to work and back, and due to where she works, public transport is not an option. I had plans to paint up the tinware Anna a few other little things, but the job has now turned into something that needs to be completed ASAP. Besides, the engine did have a complete rebuild only a few years ago. The previous owner bought it from a guy who had recently did major work to the engine, which included a new case, top quality crank, CB110 cam, remote oil filter, Kennedy Clutch, a complete rebuild of all components in the gearbox, and much more. I'm only in this predicament because water went down the carbs. Now that I have the heads off, I can see where rust had formed on the cylinders!

So this time around the best I can do is what I'm doing now. I know it's possible that I could be doing this all again in a year's time, but things should be very different by that time and hopefully I'll be able to stand the time on the engine that it deserves.



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Dean...
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Re: 1916 Top end rebuild - what should I look out for?

Post by Dean... » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:21 am

Heads are at the machinist. I felt better about the situation when, after having a look at the heads, he asks me if they have been reconditioned and why I wanted to do the valves. I explained to him that the cylinders filled with water, and he then understood. I should have taken a pic, because they do look like they are in good condition.

Anyways, the cylinders are off, and so are the pistons now. While it's clear that there was rust forming on the cylinders, the pistons themselves look good. I actually wish that I had just bought new cylinders and rings, because I could definitely reused the pistons. They appear to have been balanced and were Mahle pistons.

I'll have the heads back tomorrow.

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heli-easy
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Re: 1916 Top end rebuild - what should I look out for?

Post by heli-easy » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:31 am

Based on your reply it sounds like your engine probably has the upgrades anyway.
Look at everything you can.

If you have corrosion in your engine i would suspect possible corrosion and water in your carbs. I would take them apart and at least clean them with spray carb cleaner & check for gunk in the passages and float bowls.


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heli-easy
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Re: 1916 Top end rebuild - what should I look out for?

Post by heli-easy » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:35 am

Also there is a tool that looks like a ¼ of a gear that the parts houses sell. It is used to torque the flywheel/ crank bolt. I highly recommend it. It makes that job easy. And it works to torque and loosen rear axle nuts.


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