Hey guys , I disassembled my baywindow 1600 ccm engine and found some stuff I don t like, it has been rebuild on a case suffered a conrod rupture....
So let s restart from scratch:
Got a good AS41 case with standard bearing size , spotless condition
Still have a good set of 1835 ccm Mahle cylinders with pistons
a good set of original 1300 ccm cylinder heads with original valves which I can rework.
And a good reworked set of 36 idf Weber carbs
I wanna build a strong good torque engine for my bus.
What would you suggest ?
Are the 36 Weber big enough with 30 venturies for a 1835 ? Or should I go for a 1641ccm ?
I though about a Engle 110 camshaft
Or should I stick with the 85 mm pistons and give it more stroke with a different crank ?
I m happy for your advises .
Thanks in advance
Sam
Baywindow Bus Type 1 Engine
- Marc
- Moderator
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Re: Baywindow Bus Type 1 Engine
Since you're in Europe and planning to use IDFs I presume the 1300 heads are dualport with 35.5x32 valves (essentially the same as 1600DP heads).
To increase the stroke using pistons with stock compression height you'll need to use spacers under the cylinders, making the engine wider and probably necessitating the use of custom-length longer pushrods - I wouldn't go that route.
87mm cylinders are a little thin for my taste in a Bus motor, and "classic" 92s are even worse.
I think you should consider getting a set of the AA "thickwall/slip-in" 88mm pistons/cylinders. They require no machine work to the case (only the heads need to be opened up, but 1300 heads would have to be opened up anyway for anything over 77mm). 1679cc wouldn't be too large to make good use of the stock-valve heads but the displacement increase would be enough to be significant and you'd have nice thick cylinderwalls. A W-110 with 36IDFs should work well for this application.
If you want to go bigger than that, there are now available thickwall 92s which have the outer dimensions of 94s. The 36IDFs would still work for your Bus "torquer" but the upper RPM wouldn't be high enough to warrant the W-110 IMO, a W-100 would be more appropriate.
To increase the stroke using pistons with stock compression height you'll need to use spacers under the cylinders, making the engine wider and probably necessitating the use of custom-length longer pushrods - I wouldn't go that route.
87mm cylinders are a little thin for my taste in a Bus motor, and "classic" 92s are even worse.
I think you should consider getting a set of the AA "thickwall/slip-in" 88mm pistons/cylinders. They require no machine work to the case (only the heads need to be opened up, but 1300 heads would have to be opened up anyway for anything over 77mm). 1679cc wouldn't be too large to make good use of the stock-valve heads but the displacement increase would be enough to be significant and you'd have nice thick cylinderwalls. A W-110 with 36IDFs should work well for this application.
If you want to go bigger than that, there are now available thickwall 92s which have the outer dimensions of 94s. The 36IDFs would still work for your Bus "torquer" but the upper RPM wouldn't be high enough to warrant the W-110 IMO, a W-100 would be more appropriate.
- samotorsport
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:57 am
Re: Baywindow Bus Type 1 Engine
Thanks very much for your quick reply.
Yes I m from Europe and the cylinder heads are the classic ones 35.5 / 32
You are right about the increased stroke, I didn t think about it
So this option is out already,
The 1835 set I have are the good forged Mahle ones, I also run them in my Dragster so I thrust them but over all I think the 36 idf might work a little better and maybe higher revs with a 1600 or 1641
I guess , and only guess that the 36 might run into trouble to feed the 1835 at higher rpm (like 4000) on longer distance (highway) and this may result in running lean.
But I don t know anybody who really runs a 36 idf 1835 ccm, maybe with an electrical fuel pump it works fine .
But still, a 1600 or 1641 might run on a wider rpm band with the 36, I heard about forged 1641 set in a much higher quality .
A friend is running one in his early bay for 20000 miles without any doubt.
So I am not sure what to do.
Or maybe going a complete different way with the 1835 ccm by leaving the Weber in the shelf and putting a compressor on it
You see I got spaghetti in my head
Yes I m from Europe and the cylinder heads are the classic ones 35.5 / 32
You are right about the increased stroke, I didn t think about it
So this option is out already,
The 1835 set I have are the good forged Mahle ones, I also run them in my Dragster so I thrust them but over all I think the 36 idf might work a little better and maybe higher revs with a 1600 or 1641
I guess , and only guess that the 36 might run into trouble to feed the 1835 at higher rpm (like 4000) on longer distance (highway) and this may result in running lean.
But I don t know anybody who really runs a 36 idf 1835 ccm, maybe with an electrical fuel pump it works fine .
But still, a 1600 or 1641 might run on a wider rpm band with the 36, I heard about forged 1641 set in a much higher quality .
A friend is running one in his early bay for 20000 miles without any doubt.
So I am not sure what to do.
Or maybe going a complete different way with the 1835 ccm by leaving the Weber in the shelf and putting a compressor on it
You see I got spaghetti in my head
- Marc
- Moderator
- Posts: 23741
- Joined: Thu May 23, 2002 12:01 am
Re: Baywindow Bus Type 1 Engine
Let me say again, such thin cylinderwalls are a BAD idea in a heavy vehicle. They have a hard time staying round under thermal gradients which means that even if you don't ever overheat them enough to scuff the pistons, the rings are constantly trying to conform to their ever-changing shape and therefore wear out prematurely. Limited heat-sink capacity means they'll have little tolerance for overheating, one climb up a long grade in too high of a gear could do irreparable damage. I would not run either 87s or classic 92s in a Bus, regardless of how high the piston quality is. Use something with thicker cylinderwalls - 90.5s are slightly thicker than 87s but stock 85.5s or thickwall 88s/92s would be even better.
You've referred to the Weber 36IDF in both single and dual terms - I hope you intend to run a pair of them. The fuel pump isn't going to change the carburetors' metering characteristics, a stock pump will put out all you'll need at the power levels being discussed. The beauty of Weber carbs is that they're relatively simple to adapt for a range of conditions - you may have to invest in a different set of emulsion tubes to use them on the larger displacement, but odds are you'll only need to change the main (and perhaps air correction) jets.
You've referred to the Weber 36IDF in both single and dual terms - I hope you intend to run a pair of them. The fuel pump isn't going to change the carburetors' metering characteristics, a stock pump will put out all you'll need at the power levels being discussed. The beauty of Weber carbs is that they're relatively simple to adapt for a range of conditions - you may have to invest in a different set of emulsion tubes to use them on the larger displacement, but odds are you'll only need to change the main (and perhaps air correction) jets.
- samotorsport
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:57 am
Re: Baywindow Bus Type 1 Engine
Ok I got it , I leave the thin cylinders aside , yes my plan was to put 2 Webers on it
But now I have an other problem , my case I still have is one from a bug , so there is no mounting point for the moustache bar .
Therefore I gonna remove my 1600ccm 40idf running fine from my 1967 Bug and putting it into the bay, this engine comes from a bay and has all the mounting points, so basicaly plug and play.
This means the baywindow motor issue is solved, just need to build a new engine for Herbie
But I gonna open a new topic for this because I have a special idea for this
Thanks anyway for your help.
Best regards
Sam
But now I have an other problem , my case I still have is one from a bug , so there is no mounting point for the moustache bar .
Therefore I gonna remove my 1600ccm 40idf running fine from my 1967 Bug and putting it into the bay, this engine comes from a bay and has all the mounting points, so basicaly plug and play.
This means the baywindow motor issue is solved, just need to build a new engine for Herbie
But I gonna open a new topic for this because I have a special idea for this
Thanks anyway for your help.
Best regards
Sam
- Marc
- Moderator
- Posts: 23741
- Joined: Thu May 23, 2002 12:01 am
Re: Baywindow Bus Type 1 Engine
There is available a steel bracket which picks up the bottom case through-bolt and the 4 oil pump studs to provide the 3 moustache bar mounting points, but I do not endorse it for a permanent solution - swapping the engines as you plan is wiser IMO. You didn't say what year the Bus is; just be sure to use the appropriate clutch cover.
Consider those AA slip-in thickwall 88s, though - all you'd need to do is have the heads opened up and you could boost the displacement significantly with very little effort.
The dreaded "Mickey-Mount": http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... C-C10-5036
Consider those AA slip-in thickwall 88s, though - all you'd need to do is have the heads opened up and you could boost the displacement significantly with very little effort.
The dreaded "Mickey-Mount": http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... C-C10-5036
- samotorsport
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:57 am
Re: Baywindow Bus Type 1 Engine
Thanks , I found this bracket at a local dealer as well, bus as you said, I prefer the bus attachment at the housing itself as well.
I found a good used case with standard bearing size which I gonna use for the bay engine and keep the one without as a spare for my dragster .
Best regards
Sam
I found a good used case with standard bearing size which I gonna use for the bay engine and keep the one without as a spare for my dragster .
Best regards
Sam