Starter adapter and distributor problem

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dannyT3
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Starter adapter and distributor problem

Post by dannyT3 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:21 pm

I need to built myself a starterbench. I've a gearbox from a -59 bug lying in the garage. Will a 12V starter work in it, if I put the correct bushing in it?

Thanks
Danny
Last edited by dannyT3 on Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dannyT3
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Re: Starter adapter

Post by dannyT3 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:15 pm

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Re: Starter adapter

Post by dannyT3 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:18 pm

The first picture shows how I want the dizzy, but if I follow the instruction, I have to turn it 180 degree.

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Marc
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Re: Starter adapter

Post by Marc » Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:38 pm

What distributor is that? (10-digit Bosch number please) ...is it even compatible with that engine?

If the distributor is exactly 180° out, the pragmatic/expedient fix is to leave the pinion gear where it is and simply flip the drive dog...spiral off the spring, drive the pin out until it just clears the shaft, rotate the dog a ½ turn and reassemble.

With a thickwall adapter bushing a 12V starter will fit into the `59 trans (or you could use a self-supporting starter from an Automatic, etc.) but the 200-tooth "12V" flywheels are slightly larger in diameter than the 109-tooth it came with, so you'd have to grind away the bosses at the four mounting bolt holes and at the starter bushing for the bigger `wheel to fit. Remove the rear mount pads too, if they're still there (late replacement ones don't cause a problem, but the studs on the original style were long enough to hit the 200-tooth flywheel).

dannyT3
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Re: Starter adapter

Post by dannyT3 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:43 pm

Thanks for your reply!

Not sure what went wrong here, thought I made a new topic on my distributor problem, but got mixed in to this post :?

I'm not sure, but I thought so, searched the Bosch #02131167014/VW311905205T, saying its for type 3...
I do have a couple more #0231137009 and #0231137013, but think they are for Type1 with the bigger vacuum clock?

I'll try to see if I understand your solution for the fix :D

I do however going to look for a wbx coil/distributor to use on this engine, if it will fit in between the fan...what do you think?

I'm aware I have to do some grinding to clear the flywheel, but I'm going to cut out the upper half "ring" out of the gearbox, so it won't take too much time.
My only concern is I'll sacrifice a functional -59 gearbox, but I wan't ever use it in any of my cars, and don't think its worth a lot of money..

Thanks again for your help.

danny

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Marc
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Re: Starter adapter and distributor problem

Post by Marc » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:39 pm

I dunno what a 0 231 137 013 is ...sure it's not 031?
All of these vacuum-only distributors are infamous for developing excessive advance at idle as the breakerplate return spring gets old. It doesn't hurt performance any but it's harder on the rings/ring lands. Often you can get away with just bending over the anchor post. If the timing/idle speed changes when you disconnect/connect the vacuum hose at a normal (~875 RPM) idle, your distributor needs help.
If you'd prefer not to tamper with the drive dog indexing, and stay 100% factory-original, you'll need to remove the fuel pump/intermediate flange and extract the drive pinion to rotate its installed position 180°. Usually that operation goes fine, but on the rare occasion when it doesn't the repercussions can be severe (up to and including needing to split the case and change the brass gear on the crank)...that's why I recommend just flipping the dog, nobody will ever know until they have to do work in that area in the future.

IMO it'd be a real shame to chop up a functional splitbox just to make a starter jig - it's probably worth more to someone who needs it for a vintage restoration than the price of a brand-new commercially-available tool...and at least as much as a tired `68-`70 002 Bus trans bellhousing, which'd make a fine jig. Even an absolutely mint one of those rarely brings even $75 (the `71 version with the late-style release bearing is more highly prized for pre`72 applications; `72-up all have extra mount "ears" on top which are needed for the late Bus bodies)

http://www.energyonemfg.com/product.php ... t=2&page=1

dannyT3
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Re: Starter adapter and distributor problem

Post by dannyT3 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:09 am

Sorry my bad, the # on the one in the pic is 0 231 167 014 / VW 311 905 205 T., but I might try one from a wbx, with its more stable ignition...

I tend agree with you, but here in Norway you'll probably won't fetch more than $50 for the splitbox, paying at least double for a bus trans bellhousing. I'll go hunting for a more common box at the caryard before a sacrifice the splitbox, doubting I'll findimany bugs at the yard anymore...

Thanks for your reply,
Danny

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Re: Starter adapter and distributor problem

Post by dannyT3 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:40 am

Found another one, Bosch JFU4 0231146113 but same problem... If any of this is correct dizzy, I don't understand, either is the picture on how its suppose to sit wrong, or something is fishy here....?

Danny

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Re: Starter adapter and distributor problem

Post by Marc » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:23 pm

The drive pinion in a Type 3 is installed "backwards" compared to a Type I.

But before we go any further, are you certain that you are on #1 TDC and not #3? At either time the crank is oriented the same, but the cam lobes and distributor drive positions differ.

When on #1 TDC (ready-to-fire) both of the #1 valves, and #2 intake, will be shut and #2 exhaust will be open.

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Re: Starter adapter and distributor problem

Post by dannyT3 » Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:39 pm

Thanks Marc.

I've installed the drive pinion according to the drawing for type 3. I'm quite sure #1 are on TDC.
Never the less, if the pinion is suppose to stay in that position, there is only one way to install the dizzy, and it is no room for the vacuum clock against the fan shroud.
I'll probably just flip the dog and see how it fit.

Thanks,
danny

dannyT3
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Re: Starter adapter and distributor problem

Post by dannyT3 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:06 pm

Flipped the dog and all is fine, thanks for your help,
Danny

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