New product: cam gear adapter

Who is the best person to rebuild your engine? You...

Moderator: sparkmaster1

Post Reply
tencentlife
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:13 am
Location: Vanistan, Abiquiu, NM, USA
Contact:

New product: cam gear adapter

Post by tencentlife » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:00 pm

Hey all, just want to let the engine builders here know about a new item I will make available soon that offers a solution to some common problems some of us deal with regularly in using aftermarket camshafts and properly fitting helical gears in Type1 and wbx crankcases.

What are the problems?:
1. Aftermarket camshafts are available in many fun grinds but are almost exclusively ground on early-style 3-bolt blanks, BUT...
2. Aftermarket aluminum helical gears are not available in the range of off-sizes that were originally made for setting gear lash properly. The aftermarket parts makers offer new alu gears, which they infer are std. but in my experience they have mostly been much smaller than a standard size. Gene Berg had some stock in off-sizes for a pretty penny, but it is drying up and they say there will be no more once a size is sold out. So, if the one you buy fits OK, you're good to go, but if it's way too big or too small, you're SOL, UNLESS...
3. You take a gear from an old Type1 cam, remove the rivets and modify it to allow room for bolt heads, which is easy and means you can conceivably have all the off-sizes you might need, BUT
4. The Type1 3-rivet gears were cast in soft magnesium. That's just fine until, despite being properly fitted, a mag gear does a number like this:
Image
If you use the old mag gears and this hasn't happened to you, all you can say is that it hasn't happened yet. Can you afford a comeback when it does? And would you then go on and take the chance of it happening again?
5. Meanwhile, we have lots of old rusting 4-rivet cams lying around that have nice strong aluminum gears on them, in various sizes, but they're useless because the new cams we like to use are all 3-bolt sticks.
6. And finally, if you're someone who actually blueprints his builds, you already know by now that you rarely get an aftermarket cam that's actually timed on zero out of the box. I buy from several cam grinders, and mic up every single cam, and I don't think I've got one yet that is less than 2 degrees off; I've had them with over 5 degrees error. Plus I like to dial in my cam timing for particular applications, once I determine what the actual timing of the cam I have in hand actually is.

So, I'm having this piece made for myself and some other colleagues, and it will be available to any other builder whom it will help. It's a hub adapter for fitting the later 4-rivet aluminum cam gears to the early-style 3-rivet cams.

And, it is drilled and tapped in a pattern that allows you to attach the gear to the cam in one of nine different positions, straight-up zero, or 2, 4, 6 or 8 crankshaft-degrees advanced or retarded. That gives a wide range of positions for correcting base cam timing or modifying it to alter the torque curve.

Image
Image

These will be available about a month from now, as a complete kit including the fasteners needed to install, all 12.9-grade button-head bolts (not the hexbolts shown in the picture). And of course there will be clear instructions how to install.

If you open an engine and it has a correctly-sized 4-rivet gear in it, you could go on and use that same gear on any camshaft you like using this adapter.

It allows adjusting cam timing during the build but is not adjustable thru the oil pump hole once installed.

I will offer a price-per-kit including shipping, as well as reduced pricing for small quantities.

Please PM for pricing info (which won't be nailed down for a few weeks anyway), but feel free to discuss or ask questions here.
Last edited by tencentlife on Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
sideshow
Posts: 3223
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:00 pm
Location: suth'ern oraygun yusa
Contact:

Re: New product

Post by sideshow » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:16 pm

I like the idea, despite not having any buckets of 4 rivets cams. What kind of oil pump will work? I assume your target market is wasser/type-5 and the oil pumps they used OEM had really thin flanges and recessed into the four rivet cams.
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

tencentlife
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:13 am
Location: Vanistan, Abiquiu, NM, USA
Contact:

Re: New product

Post by tencentlife » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:27 pm

Well the cam you have dictates the oil pump, so this deal would always take the 3-rivet short-reach pump. Target market is both wbx and Type1/3 cases <edited above to indicate this>, they use the same parts in this area and the problem is the same. And, although I think some hobbyist builders might appreciate it, I'm really aiming at guys who build for a living, that's why I'll have a quantity price. If you tear apart a lot of wbx's or post-71 Type1's that still have a stock-style cam you do end up with a lot of 4-rivet cams. If like me those guys are fitting performance cams, they're either salvaging gears or buying them. This will let us use good gears we already have, or are practically free to get, and the timing flexibility is the bonus.

tencentlife
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:13 am
Location: Vanistan, Abiquiu, NM, USA
Contact:

Re: New product: cam gear adapter

Post by tencentlife » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:32 pm

The product is now available.
Image

Link to STF ad:
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 6&t=139017
Last edited by tencentlife on Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

neil68
Posts: 659
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 11:36 pm
Location: Canada

Re: New product: cam gear adapter

Post by neil68 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:59 pm

Looks similar in concept to the old school "dial-in cam" purple gears. Those had 12 holes...

User avatar
Piledriver
Moderator
Posts: 21786
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Van Alstyne, Texas

Re: New product: cam gear adapter

Post by Piledriver » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:08 pm

Great idea!
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

tencentlife
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:13 am
Location: Vanistan, Abiquiu, NM, USA
Contact:

Re: New product: cam gear adapter

Post by tencentlife » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:26 pm

Thanks!


Looks similar in concept to the old school "dial-in cam" purple gears. Those had 12 holes...
Anything like this?:
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1504

User avatar
Marc
Moderator
Posts: 23731
Joined: Thu May 23, 2002 2:01 am
Contact:

Re: New product: cam gear adapter

Post by Marc » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:15 am

The "Dial-In Cams" purple gear worked in conjunction with their cams which had additional threaded holes, not the same as the CB Performance deal.
I ran some of the Dial-In cams back in the day; they had extremely long clearance ramps. I presume this was done in order to allow you to play around with a wider range of timing before things quit working altogether, but one effect was less time with the valve on the seat and hotter-running exhaust valves.

The three primary bolt holes are slotted; the gear timing is determined by the location of a 4th capscrew going through one of the "extra" holes to one of the additional threaded holes in the cam flange. Basically useless without their camshaft (or one which has had the additional threaded holes added).
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifie ... 086635.jpg
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifie ... 764952.jpg
Last edited by Marc on Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
sideshow
Posts: 3223
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:00 pm
Location: suth'ern oraygun yusa
Contact:

Re: New product: cam gear adapter

Post by sideshow » Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:48 pm

Since you posted this I have be watching for late 4-bolt cores and am up to three. Well excluding the trophy I won for being the only guy in the club to race that year.
What is the current ad/method for getting a couple of cam adapters?
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

tencentlife
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:13 am
Location: Vanistan, Abiquiu, NM, USA
Contact:

Re: New product: cam gear adapter

Post by tencentlife » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:12 am

Thanks for the interest. I quit any efforts to make these available when I was continually reminded what a friggin' pain in the ass VW hobbyists can be. The item makes me more money using them myself than selling them piecemeal. But if you'd like to buy, you can contact me thru the email link on my website, there's a link button on this page:
http://www.vanistan.com/Vanistan/orderi ... ories.html

Let me know you'd like some adapters and I'll reply with prices and payment info.

I include basic instructions pertaining to fitting the gear, and the required fasteners, but you need to know how to time a cam, I only like holding hands with pretty girls.

User avatar
Mike T
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 3:01 am

Re: New product: cam gear adapter

Post by Mike T » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:16 pm

Cool product. How much does it weigh compared to a 3-bolt cam?

Mike T

User avatar
Marc
Moderator
Posts: 23731
Joined: Thu May 23, 2002 2:01 am
Contact:

Re: New product: cam gear adapter

Post by Marc » Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:03 pm

One thing I've noticed it that the incidence of loose cam-gear rivets is much higher on the 4-rivet cams. Could be due to manufacturing failure (by the time they're discovered loose it's impossible to tell if they were poorly pressed to begin with) but you'd think that four at a greater radius would be less-stressed than three. I speculate that there's a harmonic-vibration issue at the heart of it - I've also noticed much higher failure rates of 4-slot aluminum pulleys than 3-slot or 5-hole, which reinforces my belief.
It'll be interesting to see if any problems develop with the 4-bolt attachment of the adapter.

Post Reply