NO oil pressure HELP!!!

[Piledriver]

Is too much bother to ask which pumps had that pressed or keyed gear??
say for example, an OEM 21mm gear pump, is keyed or pressed?

I'm on my way to check that, wish me luck...

The OG stock pumps were all press on, but also predated the invention of PM (powdered metal) gears...
Back in the ancient of days they were very much on there to stay, very tight press fit.

What passes for a "stock pump" today is made in Mexico, Brazil or China and almost certainly has pressed on PM gears.

Touch of TIG...

There are several long threads covering the "gotchas" of the pumps currently available, there are many things that can cause the issues you see.

[JB17Atita]

Ok, i pulled the gears from the pump...
I heat it until it was smoking (probaly from the oil, but I had already cleaned)
and the damn thing doesn't turn at all.......
Not even a little bit...
So, loose drive gear is out....
Any other possible causes?

Another question jumped to my head. If dual relief cases have that second shorter plunger to KEEP the pressure, and only relieve it when there's too much psi, could it be that somewhere in my case that initiall cold pressure it¡s scapeing as the engine heats up?
what could that be???

just so you know, the rattle continues....
BTW i DO have both gaskets installed, pump-to-case and pump-to-cover
The latter is too thin, does anyone know what is the exact thickness?

Thank you all for your replies suggestions and comments

[FJCamper]

Hi JB17Atita,

This sounds more and more like case-splitting time.

Internally, oil pressure can be escaping from under the main bearing to case saddles, or at a rod bearing. The rattle noise you hear supports a bearing problem.

Before something big breaks, take it apart and find out for sure.

FJC

[JB17Atita]

Ok, here's a doubt
My dad just got me a new oil pump.... my frist thought a first glance was that it was for super and not for my engine....
But I have been researching and some pages tell me that it's for bettle (and not for super)
part number is 111 115 107 AK

google sends over a dozen of websites from china ???
and these are the ones that tell me what I need to read....
http://www.vwheritage.com/vwh/VW-Beetle ... lateID=vwh
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... 115-107-AK
Rick Higgins in his Bug me video says that it is for super.....

So who should I believe? Would it be nice if try to slip in these pump with my engine on? or it's not owrth it and I should go to the part store and exchange for the "correct one"????

[FJCamper]

Hi JB17Atita,

In your situation, get the right pump for the engine case number. You can install it with the engine in the car.

FJC

[sideshow]

Relax with the “super” & “not super” oil pump descriptions;

• Your case was made before super beetle ever existed
  super beetles use the same oil pump as the standards

[JB17Atita]

riddle solved........
It turns out that that there's something like a high flow pump that resembles the super pump but I got the correct one
As soon as I get time, I slip that baby in......
any suggestion on how to do it, with the engine on?

[FJCamper]

Hi--

Jack the rear end of the car up. Remove the exhaust. The pump is right there in front of you.

You need a pump body puller tool to get it out without damage, however.

FJC

[JB17Atita]

Ok, good info!

But i have two minor setbacks....
don't have any pump puller, I suppose i have to loosen some case nuts, question is which ones exactly?
I suppose that oil will be spilling

anywhere round here sell the stupid gaskets for the pump.... I have the pump to case gasket but the one that matters not....
can I make one out of some kind of paper? which paper would resemble more the OEM gasket and do the job?

I intend to do that this week, if everything checks out fine

[turboblue]

Ok, good info!

But i have two minor setbacks....
don't have any pump puller, I suppose i have to loosen some case nuts, question is which ones exactly?
I suppose that oil will be spilling

anywhere round here sell the stupid gaskets for the pump.... I have the pump to case gasket but the one that matters not....
can I make one out of some kind of paper? which paper would resemble more the OEM gasket and do the job?

I intend to do that this week, if everything checks out fine

Where is "around here"?

[perrib]

All the pump pullers I have are homemade. Once you loosen the case bolts above it and below it it should slide out with a few taps of a plastic hammer. I you used excessive silicone or gasket cemet pull ther pump studs which will allow you to twist the pump and beak the glues grip. The pump to cover gasket is very thin. I had asked you to check and make sure the gasket there was very thin. You can almost see through it. If the gasket is thick like the pump to case gasket that could of been your original trouble.
As for bearing crush. A new bearing fits very snug in a case. You have to exert pressure to bottom it against the case.

[JB17Atita]

How do you define having the same simptoms adding less oil pressure, and oil in the dipstick with engine running (just like when you check your oil bejore starting the engine)????

Oh and that with the new pump installed (same 21mm gears but with bigger holes...

[arizonian]

My bearings are fine, but what if they have too much wear or if the case saddle has excesive wear? would that be cause of my trouble?

If i remember correctly there wasn't that crush... the small bearing and the one at the camshaft gear struggle to get in but the split bearing and thrust one.... think not....

Start it up with the fan disconnected just to make sure the cooling fan is not broken.

This sounds more and more like case-splitting time.

I haven't been following this thread, but reading through it once brings up possibillities. New bearings are suspect until verified with a micrometer. The case and crank should have been miked before purchasing bearings, then the bearings should be miked to verify size.


You state you have pressure when cold but none when hot, but you get a rattle when starting a cold motor...

Loose bearings will rattle until oil pressure builds...

Hot oil is less viscous than cold, consequently pressure falls off...

Just my .02

Bill

On edit, the fact that you have any pressure almost rules out pump problems, except where the shaft spins in the gear...

[JB17Atita]

I just come from changing the gauge/sender back to the stock oil light switch
and after fifteen minutes of of enginge on at idle speed the light began to flicker.....
I guess my conclusion is on the bearings...........
i just want to cry.... this would have to be third time in less than a year that I have to crack it open......
just have to make sure to make it right this time.....
I wish i could forget about gaskets sealants and torque..............

[QRP]

Dont feel bad, one time I finished a long block only to discover one leftover wrist pin clip in the bag they came in.

I finally cooled down enough to take the whole thing apart only to find out that I had installed all the clips.

THERE WAS ONE EXTRA IN THE BAG

it happens to all of us .