Hello All,
I am doing a conversion to a type4 engine in my beetle and i was reading somewhere that said the thing stub axles can fit into the car irs trailing arm without any modification. I really want to try this if it works. I am putting a 091 bus gear box in my car.
stub axles
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Marc
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Yes, stub axles from a Thing (IRS Type 181) fit directly in place of "normal" IRS Bug stub axles. Another source is 924 Porsche.
The biggest problem you'll have is the drive axle shaft length. The 091 trans is wider so the axles must be shorter. Sway-a-Way #2015s are made for this conversion (they're 15-5/8" long instead of 16-23/64") but cost $210 a pair.
The LH axles from automatic Type IIIs are almost exactly the same length, so a pair of them could do the trick, but what I'm not certain about is the spline length (the width of the inner race of the CV joint). Type II & IV/181/924 CVs are 28mm thick and Type I/III are 24mm, so you'd need to thin the II or IV CVs' inner races to fit them onto the Type III axles, which could limit their useful travel enough to be a problem in off-road use. Machining the axle to allow the CV to slip on further seems like it might create a stress riser that'd weaken the axle.
The biggest problem you'll have is the drive axle shaft length. The 091 trans is wider so the axles must be shorter. Sway-a-Way #2015s are made for this conversion (they're 15-5/8" long instead of 16-23/64") but cost $210 a pair.
The LH axles from automatic Type IIIs are almost exactly the same length, so a pair of them could do the trick, but what I'm not certain about is the spline length (the width of the inner race of the CV joint). Type II & IV/181/924 CVs are 28mm thick and Type I/III are 24mm, so you'd need to thin the II or IV CVs' inner races to fit them onto the Type III axles, which could limit their useful travel enough to be a problem in off-road use. Machining the axle to allow the CV to slip on further seems like it might create a stress riser that'd weaken the axle.
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Kubelmann
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Marc, You bring up good question that I have ponder over but have never had a chance to check out.
The 924/944 has the same automatic trans set up (as the t-3) with one long axle shaft and one short one. I suspect that two short 944 automatic axles will fit also but have never had the chance to check the theory. The good news about this conversion is that the splines are identical to Thing and so on.
The 924/944 has the same automatic trans set up (as the t-3) with one long axle shaft and one short one. I suspect that two short 944 automatic axles will fit also but have never had the chance to check the theory. The good news about this conversion is that the splines are identical to Thing and so on.
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Marc
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Class 11 streeter
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I am running all the 924 stuff from stubs to CV's in my Class 11 bug with Thing drive flanges. Stock type 1 trailing arms. Everybody seems to be getting along fine with the shorter axles making up for the wider CV's.
Another good point is the Thing/924/944/411/412 CV's going to more angle than the type 2 CV's, if that is an issue.
Interesting how Porsche chose the type 4 CV for their budget performance cars instead of the other common type 2 style, with the suspension travel of the 924/944 the Porsches in a pinch could use the type 2 CV if they needed to.
Another good point is the Thing/924/944/411/412 CV's going to more angle than the type 2 CV's, if that is an issue.
Interesting how Porsche chose the type 4 CV for their budget performance cars instead of the other common type 2 style, with the suspension travel of the 924/944 the Porsches in a pinch could use the type 2 CV if they needed to.
Last edited by Class 11 streeter on Wed May 07, 2008 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So you think your project is taking forever eh? Well you've got nothing on me.....
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alsehendo
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- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2001 12:01 am
Well I asked this a while back. The 091 tranny sits higher on solid mounts so won't this make up @ least for some of the extra width? I know you have to top mount a shifter on the tunnel or use this wierd stacker thing welded to hook the shifter up. This is a sharpbuilt soft mount but raises the tranny lik the hard mount kits.
I also herd the tranny hits the body if you don't use a lift kit on the car or make frame mods to lower the tranny and use a kafe brace or some other homade method to mount it?
I wish Bob was still around tell what he did for stubs. He put bus tranny in Thing & type 4. I know he lifted the body to clear the tranny & shroud.
Here is what he said in another post:
Bus Tranny Swap====
I'm just getting finished with our tranny swap... you're very close to being there... unless you're jacking up the car for a bit of lift -- you can use the stub axles, drive axles and CVs.... We just got done doing the longer trailing arm route--- good arms do cost a bit of cash.... In sunny Cal a good bus tranny does cost... plan on $500-1000 for the swap out. I've got some good notes collected when it comes time.
I also herd the tranny hits the body if you don't use a lift kit on the car or make frame mods to lower the tranny and use a kafe brace or some other homade method to mount it?
I wish Bob was still around tell what he did for stubs. He put bus tranny in Thing & type 4. I know he lifted the body to clear the tranny & shroud.
Here is what he said in another post:
Bus Tranny Swap====
I'm just getting finished with our tranny swap... you're very close to being there... unless you're jacking up the car for a bit of lift -- you can use the stub axles, drive axles and CVs.... We just got done doing the longer trailing arm route--- good arms do cost a bit of cash.... In sunny Cal a good bus tranny does cost... plan on $500-1000 for the swap out. I've got some good notes collected when it comes time.
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Kubelmann
- Posts: 1380
- Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 12:01 am
This is a thread that is going right where I think I want to go with my current Thing resto.
I have the complete drive train from from a 79 bay bus. 2.0 L injected motor and 091 trans. I can contact Bob and get him to chime in. I need some thoughts about the smoothest way to get that drive line in with no body lift.
I have the complete drive train from from a 79 bay bus. 2.0 L injected motor and 091 trans. I can contact Bob and get him to chime in. I need some thoughts about the smoothest way to get that drive line in with no body lift.
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alsehendo
- Posts: 1004
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2001 12:01 am
Cut the horns
Make kafer brace.
I als o herd somewere you tilt it down about 10 degrees rember it is not only wider but longer also?
Piledriver's
http://www.tunacan.net/t4/howto/kaferbrace/
5 rib I have to use74 bay bus.
Make kafer brace.
I als o herd somewere you tilt it down about 10 degrees rember it is not only wider but longer also?
Piledriver's
http://www.tunacan.net/t4/howto/kaferbrace/
5 rib I have to use74 bay bus.
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alsehendo
- Posts: 1004
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2001 12:01 am
"I can contact Bob and get him to chime in."
Any luck?
I would like to know if you have to lift the body or not--when using the bus to bug hard mount and above the channel shifter box setup. If you don't lift will you have to cut a whole in the body for the taller tranny that sits higher? And dosent the engine also ride higher relative to th body with the bus to bug hard mount kits are used?
Talking about one of these cheepo kits sold everywhere:
Also I cant find any so called 10 degree kits available anywhere is the McKenzie kit still available or is someone else making them?
Any luck?
I would like to know if you have to lift the body or not--when using the bus to bug hard mount and above the channel shifter box setup. If you don't lift will you have to cut a whole in the body for the taller tranny that sits higher? And dosent the engine also ride higher relative to th body with the bus to bug hard mount kits are used?
Talking about one of these cheepo kits sold everywhere:
Also I cant find any so called 10 degree kits available anywhere is the McKenzie kit still available or is someone else making them?