SMOG PUMP/SUPERCHARGER?

94teener · Post by **94teener** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 2:23 pm

Smog pumps won't do it. Think of it, you need positive static pressure above atmosphic at the input to a carb, (for example blow through at WOT) and about 300 cfm, to get a top end power increase that amounts to anything. It takes about 5 or 6 hp to get that. That smog pump can't hack a fraction of that.
Phil

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 2:31 pm

It wont work.
I will let you guys in on a secret though.
Late model cop cars use an electric smog pump. Get one of those and pick up 10 - 20 HP with no parasitic drain on the motor.
You need low tension rings to get the most out of it.

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Marty Staggs
www.staggsracing.com

94teener · Post by **94teener** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 3:42 pm

Marty,
It ain't going to do it. Electric smog pumps got to get energy from somewhere. Its a drain on the alternator. With those big V-8 engines it might bring up a little power up to 1500 rpm, after that, its nothing but a drag on the stock performance of the engine.
You need significant hp in order to get induction input static pressure up above atmospheric and you have to do it with big cfm's on those big V-8's at WOT. It ain't going to happen with no stinkin smog pump.
Phil

HotStreetVw · Post by **HotStreetVw** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 4:11 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by 94teener:
Marty,
It ain't going to do it. Electric smog pumps got to get energy from somewhere. Its a drain on the alternator. With those big V-8 engines it might bring up a little power up to 1500 rpm, after that, its nothing but a drag on the stock performance of the engine.
You need significant hp in order to get induction input static pressure up above atmospheric and you have to do it with big cfm's on those big V-8's at WOT. It ain't going to happen with no stinkin smog pump.
Phil<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think Marty is suggesting using it as a vaccum pump for the crankcase, not to give intake boost.

94teener · Post by **94teener** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 6:20 pm

HotStreet,
Perhaps you are right but, non-the-less, the smog pump wouldn't help. If it were so, Ford and Chevy sure as heck wouldn't pass up the chance to pump out another 10, 20 free hp well before they shipped out those police cruisers.
Phil

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 10:38 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by 94teener:
HotStreet,
Perhaps you are right but, non-the-less, the smog pump wouldn't help. If it were so, Ford and Chevy sure as heck wouldn't pass up the chance to pump out another 10, 20 free hp well before they shipped out those police cruisers.
Phil

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It DOES work and I would not say it if I did not already know

Its for crankcase evacuation - FYI

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Marty Staggs
www.staggsracing.com

wordplayer · Post by **wordplayer** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 11:27 pm

Would the electric ones help to spool up a turbo faster? It seems to me like it would help.

MagOO · Post by **MagOO** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 11:53 pm

Years ago kit builders and rodders used the smohg pump on Vegas and the like to achive a 25 cfm or so boost ...RV's have been known to use them to spool up turbos MUCH quicker .saty from 6 psi at 5000 to 12 at 4000 .....or sdomething like that...

MagOO · Post by **MagOO** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 11:54 pm

Also they have been used suck cess fully on carts and such....

94teener · Post by **94teener** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 7:10 am

Marty,
Sorry, I misunderstood about supercharging when you meant crank case evacuation.
I don't doubt your verasity regarding the the 10-20 hp gain, I just don't believe you were given the correct info.
The electric motor driven crank case evacuation pumps have zero effect on hp. In fact, you can pull a vaccum or you can pressurize a crank case, neither one will have any effect on hp, neither one will affect the amount of fuel/air mixture being pumped into the induction system. With the engine running, the crank case itself, neither acts as a pressure pump nor a vac pump.
Those cops had to be getting their 10 20 hp from somewhere else.
Phil

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 7:34 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by 94teener:
Marty,
Sorry, I misunderstood about supercharging when you meant crank case evacuation.
I don't doubt your verasity regarding the the 10-20 hp gain, I just don't believe you were given the correct info.
The electric motor driven crank case evacuation pumps have zero effect on hp. In fact, you can pull a vaccum or you can pressurize a crank case, neither one will have any effect on hp, neither one will affect the amount of fuel/air mixture being pumped into the induction system. With the engine running, the crank case itself, neither acts as a pressure pump nor a vac pump.
Those cops had to be getting their 10 20 hp from somewhere else.
Phil<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont know what HP the cop cars are getting using these. I am talking about the HP increase seen on a VW motor with one.
Crankcase evac pumps (smog pumps) DO increase HP. There are two types - belt driven (which most race cars use) and the electrically driven (which are kind of a secret and some race cars use and getting more popular). The parasitic drag from a belt driven pump is more than made up for with the increase in available HP. The electrically driven pumps have no parasitic drag but their vacum is static and does not increase with rpm.
Check every NHRA Pro Stock car, PRA Pro Stock bugs and many other bugs. In fact Kevin Shull is now selling belt driven pumps as well as Jack Sachetti.
http://www.geocities.com/~ksracecars/ksrace.html

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Marty Staggs
www.staggsracing.com

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 7:36 am

Also the way a vacum pump works has nothing to do with the air fuel mixture or ratio. It has to do with blow by and ring seal.

Which motor makes more power?
One with 2% ring leakage or one with 10% ring leakage?

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Marty Staggs
www.staggsracing.com

94teener · Post by **94teener** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 8:16 am

Marty,
Now I know what you are talking about, I apologize for my misunderstanding. What you are really doing is preventing compression loss. I follow you now.

Slightly aside, the parasitic drag caused by electric driven accessories is greater than for direct power take-off accessories.
This is because one has to add the loss in power due to the inefficiency of the electric accessory to the loss in power due to the inefficency of the alternator, where as with a direct power (gear or belt) take off, one only has the loss in power due to the inefficency of the accessory.
Phil

Searoy · Post by **Searoy** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 8:35 am

Unless you don't run an alternator/generator. Of course, it's not much of a street engine at that point.

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*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy

"I tend to lean toward a tighter gap and a
looser skirt....a little slap never hurt." -- Joe of the West

Sidewalk · Post by **Sidewalk** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 1:49 pm

The addition of a crankcase evac pump is not to gain HP, but to gain efficiency. Fuel has a certian amount of energy contained in it that can not be change (in lab conditions of course). If a certian amount of that energy is used to pump air in and out of the way of the piston, that is less energy tohat will hit the crank.

Typcally, electrical accesories are more efficient then mechanical driven. There is less friction loss through a wire then through a belt, change, or gear. Take a look at a modern factory hipo motor and take note to the fact that it has an electric fan and an electric waterpump. If the power steering didn't require so much power, I garauntee that it would be powered by an electric motor as well. Same for A/C.

Of course, as soon as these engineers get off of thier asses and build a car that is powered purely by a generator, it will be much easier.

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'88 Bronco II - Sonja
'59 Bug - Stella
'00 Buell X1 - Liz
"Yes, I am a smart ass."
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