Looking for advice on a 2276 turbo build

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kana0074
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Looking for advice on a 2276 turbo build

Post by kana0074 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:22 pm

First time posting but have been lurking for a while now.

I have a '67 bug, looking to put together a turbo in it. I have the following parts -
Megasquirt 3 V.3
Web Cam 86B 112LC with 1.4:1 CB ratio rockers
KKK K26 Turbo

I want to put together a 2276. Looking for advise on heads (CB), Exhaust.
Will the Mexi EFI work with what I'm trying to do?
What kind of performance will get out of the Mexi EFI using my cam and turbo?
Which CB heads?
CB turbo exhaust is 1 5/8", I have the T3/4 to T25/28 for the KKK K26 turbo. Will the 1 5/8" exhaust be to big?
Is there a 1 1/2" turbo exhaust available for use with a closed decklid?

Thank you

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petew
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Re: Looking for advice on a 2276 turbo build

Post by petew » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:25 am

I guess the answer to your question is... how long is a piece of string?

I can't comment much on the specifics of the motor build, but I can speak from experience about the CB hideaway turbo header.
1. Yes is will work. I have one on a 1600, which is not ideal, but it is ok. With a 2.3l motor it will be much better.
2. Re the exhaust, CB doesn't sell specific exhausts. You'll need to build (or have built) a dump pipe and exhaust to go with it.

The person to ask about Mexi manifolds and how effective they'd be on such a large motor is Mario Velotta. Hopefully he'll chime in as he sell this stuff. My feeling is the TB might restrict the top end of that big a motor. I'd be using these if I were you...

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/7362.htm

Shame CB don't stock the stockish ones anymore like I have.

How much power can you expect? There are plenty of people here with small blocks (near stock) making 200hp. So that figure should be easy enough for you with a good tune and enough boost.

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Chip Birks
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Re: Looking for advice on a 2276 turbo build

Post by Chip Birks » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:26 am

How much power do you want to make? That turbo will have to work hard to make gobs of power, hard working turbos make lots of heat. Heat is an aircooled vws biggest enemy. What are you going to do to combat it. A1 sells their hideaway in 1.5. Costs almost double what the cb header does though.

kana0074
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Re: Looking for advice on a 2276 turbo build

Post by kana0074 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:45 am

Thank you for the reply Petew and Chip.

I knew as soon as I posted this and read it just how vague and open ended my post was.

This is a build I'm looking at building for my '67 full body/weight weekender. The MS3, cam and K26 turbo are some of the items that I've picked up very cheap. I'm only hoping to use the MS3 and cam. The turbo can be changed.

My background. I'm racing a PE Class '66 Bug with a 2276, IDA 12.7et track only car. Nothing special. I'm in Las Vegas, NV. We haven't had a Bug-in back in Vegas for a few years. Nothing coming back any time soon. I now race locally in the NHRA Division 7 Pro ET Class. I hold my own but need to be more consistent when lining up against 700+ trans brake cars. I only use handbrake for staging.
We have a event called Midnight Mayhem that happens more often then we do the NHRA events. I want to build my '67 to be competitive in those events. They are only for street legal, registered and insured cars.

Expectations - HP, what can i get with using 86b, CB ponchitos, CB exhaust?

Chip - I was at the last Bug-in when you came to Vegas. I did a walk thur of you car and pit. I knew the car because I followed you posts of the build. This was the same race the Richie Web put a hole in his cylinder heads. I had a pretty good conversation with his partner. I can't remember his name. He's doing the Hot Rod Drag Week with Richie, the blue '69 Bug. He was very helpful about answering my question about Microsquirt.
I know you started with the Mexi EFI and changed to you homebuilt intercooled setup. At what point did you find it to be restrictive? HP and flow?

I do know who Mario (The Dub Shop) is. I will be sending him my MS3 for service/diagnostic as it was purchased used. I'm also looking at getting the Mexi EFI set up from him when it time if it will fit my build.

I have also followed the post from Chip, Clonebug, Kalle, Joel Mohr and others.
Clone bug's stock-ish set up is amazing. It just got way better after changing to the Mexi EFI set up and Mario helping with the tuning. 200+ I think on his.
Kalle's insane 1600 build before he sold it.

Exhaust - CB seems to be to only affordable exhaust. A1 is more than i want to spend but is the right size. Joel Mohr makes a nice exhaust that he used for his draw thru Kadron system.

Heat - Yes, a big problem for me in Vegas. looking at something like Kalle did on his.

Turbo - Open to suggestion.

I hope this clears up my original post.

kana0074
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Re: Looking for advice on a 2276 turbo build

Post by kana0074 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:50 am

Petew

I'm still reading your post about your build like 90 pages so i have some reading to do.

Clonebug
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Re: Looking for advice on a 2276 turbo build

Post by Clonebug » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:47 pm

I don't run the Mexican setup.
I have a homemade intake manifold with CB FI intake ends and a German 45mm TB.

As for your turbo it is probably on the small side for max power but should get you 250 hp.

In my opinion a Subaru STI turbo would make an excellent turbo for a 2276 but clocking it and fitting to a CB header would take some work. They are capable of 350 hp and would give close to insta-boost for a great street car.
For an all out race car you could try a Holset HX-30 or HX-35.
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

kana0074
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Re: Looking for advice on a 2276 turbo build

Post by kana0074 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:19 pm

Thanks Clonebug for the reply.

Sorry for the confusion on your intake.
I'll look into the turbos you listed.
Do you have an opinion on the Mexi EFI set up? What its limits could be?

Clonebug
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Re: Looking for advice on a 2276 turbo build

Post by Clonebug » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:10 pm

I don't know much about the Mexican intake but it looks small to me.....

All you can do is give it a try and see how much hp you can push through it.

If i remember correctly Mario ran it on his 2276 at first but I can't recall at what point he hit the restriction.

Your other choice is the CB hi-flow end pieces which are way overpriced or the IDF style FI end pieces and build your own intake and TB for it.

Modifying stock intake end pieces for injector bungs is possible but you will have good chunk of cash into that too...

Building something like Chip runs would probably be the most reasonable if you have some fab skills.

To get 300 hp out of a 2276 with IAT's of 120 degrees you need 6200 rpm with an airflow of 33 lbs/min or 409 cu. ft./min

Find a turbo that will flow that in the sweet spot and you are set.

For giggles my WRX turbo will flow 394 cu. ft./min......an STI turbo will support about 75 hp more......
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

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petew
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Re: Looking for advice on a 2276 turbo build

Post by petew » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:33 am

kana0074 wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:50 am
Petew

I'm still reading your post about your build like 90 pages so i have some reading to do.
Sorry the pics don't work :(

kana0074
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:13 pm

Re: Looking for advice on a 2276 turbo build

Post by kana0074 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:04 am

Thanks everyone.
Last night I saw Mario's post on Facebook of the intake he is working on. That looks like the answer for me.

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Chip Birks
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Re: Looking for advice on a 2276 turbo build

Post by Chip Birks » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:34 pm

kana0074 wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:45 am
Thank you for the reply Petew and Chip.

I knew as soon as I posted this and read it just how vague and open ended my post was.

This is a build I'm looking at building for my '67 full body/weight weekender. The MS3, cam and K26 turbo are some of the items that I've picked up very cheap. I'm only hoping to use the MS3 and cam. The turbo can be changed.

My background. I'm racing a PE Class '66 Bug with a 2276, IDA 12.7et track only car. Nothing special. I'm in Las Vegas, NV. We haven't had a Bug-in back in Vegas for a few years. Nothing coming back any time soon. I now race locally in the NHRA Division 7 Pro ET Class. I hold my own but need to be more consistent when lining up against 700+ trans brake cars. I only use handbrake for staging.
We have a event called Midnight Mayhem that happens more often then we do the NHRA events. I want to build my '67 to be competitive in those events. They are only for street legal, registered and insured cars.

Expectations - HP, what can i get with using 86b, CB ponchitos, CB exhaust?

Chip - I was at the last Bug-in when you came to Vegas. I did a walk thur of you car and pit. I knew the car because I followed you posts of the build. This was the same race the Richie Web put a hole in his cylinder heads. I had a pretty good conversation with his partner. I can't remember his name. He's doing the Hot Rod Drag Week with Richie, the blue '69 Bug. He was very helpful about answering my question about Microsquirt.
I know you started with the Mexi EFI and changed to you homebuilt intercooled setup. At what point did you find it to be restrictive? HP and flow?

I do know who Mario (The Dub Shop) is. I will be sending him my MS3 for service/diagnostic as it was purchased used. I'm also looking at getting the Mexi EFI set up from him when it time if it will fit my build.

Turbo - Open to suggestion.
Okay cool. CB header will be fine. I've seen close to stock 1600s run it, as well as racecars knocking on 9s door.

How come the big desire to run the mexican setup? I can't tell you what hp i quit. I have no idea. I used it on my 2054, running like 11psi from an old Rajay b40. I had issues with crazy high intake temps and boost leaks out of the boots. Mario retained the tb on his 11 second setup. Made 230+whp in that form.

That 86b is a great cam, I'd keep that, call Shag about a turbo, and get a nice set of cnc heads. Super pro's are a good option and will make huge power. Shag also ports heads and will get you a set at a price comperable to the average big name cnc ported set. Thats what I'm running now.

How fast do you want to go?

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petew
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Re: Looking for advice on a 2276 turbo build

Post by petew » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:44 pm

I found a fix for the photosucket problem...

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo ... entlyadded

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slowsixtyduece
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Re: Looking for advice on a 2276 turbo build

Post by slowsixtyduece » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:07 am

Your combo sounds like it's starting to come together. I personally run CB injection end castings that have been opened up to match an SL-1 (Shag) made 1-3/4" intake. By the way, CB has these end castings back in stock now:
http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/7360.htm

I went back and forth on what throttle body to use; eventually I went for a Jenvey single throttle body that works great! More $$ than I wanted to spend but well worth it! No leaks and plenty of sizes to choose from. The mexi is an okay system but will need some mods to seal it up and also can be restrictive on the top end according to some.

The CB hideaway header would be just fine for what you are trying to accomplish. Keep in mind that you are limited to what size turbo you can run on that header due to where the flange is located. I have a T3/4 and it fits fine but is a little tight. Not sure how much bigger you could go without modifying it. Great header though. You may also consider relocating the wastegate location from a single tube to the collector. 1 5/8" might be slightly larger for your combo, but it will work just fine.

Just about any decently ported heads, whether CNC or hand ported, with bigger valves would work, just keep in mind that you will probably need a decent sized chamber in order to lower the cc's for turbo - or you will have to obtain lots of deck height depending on CR you want to run.

Depending on boost level, type of gas, etc, you should be getting into the 180-250 hp range with your combo.

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