Safe boost pressure?
- Chip Birks
- Posts: 4003
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:59 pm
Re: Safe boost pressure?
I like the intercooler idea personally. No tank to run out.
One of these days I'll actually put meth in my tank and get some data.
One of these days I'll actually put meth in my tank and get some data.
- Stripped66
- Posts: 1904
- Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2001 12:01 am
Re: Safe boost pressure?
No, it's low, and dreadfully low for water/meth injection.kobuggy wrote:Is 18* to much timing for 15psi, I will be installing water/meth before I run again.
- kobuggy
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:26 pm
Re: Safe boost pressure?
What would you suggest for safe timing while using meth, I know I need to get to the dyno to know for sure. But that's not going to happen before the next 1/8th mile race day. Also how far from the throttle body is the ideal location for the meth nozzle?
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- Stripped66
- Posts: 1904
- Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2001 12:01 am
Re: Safe boost pressure?
It ultimately depends on what your engine wants, but if you're mixing pump and race gas at 15 psi, it should handle 24 degrees of timing without methanol injection, and more with it.kobuggy wrote:What would you suggest for safe timing while using meth, I know I need to get to the dyno to know for sure. But that's not going to happen before the next 1/8th mile race day. Also how far from the throttle body is the ideal location for the meth nozzle?
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- Posts: 4719
- Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:28 pm
Re: Safe boost pressure?
My homemade WI dropped my IAT's from 200 plus degrees to under 140 degrees at 17 lbs with my old turbo.
My new turbo has lower IAT's at up to 22 lbs.
My new turbo has lower IAT's at up to 22 lbs.
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.
- kobuggy
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:26 pm
Re: Safe boost pressure?
Clonebug are you running 22 lbs without an intercooler? Any input on nozzle location?
- panel
- Posts: 4200
- Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 12:01 am
Re: Safe boost pressure?
Great looking ride
'65 Bus with a JDM Subaru EJ20 Turbo
Built by Germans powered by Japanese and brought together by Canadians
Built by Germans powered by Japanese and brought together by Canadians
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- Posts: 112
- Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:47 pm
Re: Safe boost pressure?
Before I installed the water injection, my IAT was 200 F. @ 7-8 lbs boost. After the water, at 15 lbs boost, it only climbs (it actually drops ) to 90. If the water takes care of your problem, keep things simple and hold off on the intercooler.
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- Posts: 4719
- Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:28 pm
Re: Safe boost pressure?
No intercooler at this time since it's all a packaging problem. I hope to add one this winter but I've said that for 2-3 years now...kobuggy wrote:Clonebug are you running 22 lbs without an intercooler? Any input on nozzle location?
I built my own intake since I was not impressed with the German Plenum and its complicated throttle linkage.
I just welded a bung on just above the tee in the intake and installed the nozzle there.
Here are some pics. Nozzle placement.......
Better pic of the new intake.
The whole WI system is homemade and it's possible a store bought one would work better but I would say 18-22 lbs isn't too bad so far.
I can only get 120 lbs water pressure whereas a "Devil's Own" pump will put out 200 lbs pressure.
If I built one myself again......I would just buy their pump and nozzles and build the rest myself.
I'm using an $8.00 electric solenoid off Ebay to keep the vacuum from sucking the water out of the tank and it works great.
Here are the parts.....Hobbs switch from "Napa"......"Devil's Own" push-locs and nozzle....Ebay solenoid.
I found a local supplier for the push-loc fittings so I can buy them a lot cheaper at about half the price of "Devil's Own".
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.
- kobuggy
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:26 pm
Re: Safe boost pressure?
Stripped I have been searching for an intercooler that will fit my car but haven't found the right one, I'm probably going to have to modify something that's close what I want, but that will be down the road. Thanks Panel, Bob that much IAT drop is definitely worth installing the W/I. Clonebug, I hope you don't mind more question and anyone else please chime in, What do you target for timing and AFR at 20+ lbs? Have you lost any IAT sensors with your W/I upstream? I was planning on putting the nozzle pre throttle body, what is the normal practice pre or post throttle body? how many others on STF have run 20+lbs successfully on a daily driver? Is there anyone at 30lbs with a daily driver?
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- Posts: 4719
- Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:28 pm
Re: Safe boost pressure?
I have only run 22 lbs. for a little while with the stock heads.
I upgraded my heads this winter and haven't turned the boost up past about 19 lbs.
I'm still doing some tuning but am working such long hours I haven't had time to get the tune closer.
Don't get me wrong....It still drives good but I don't want to push it to that ragged edge until I have time to get a tight tune.
With the hot weather we have right now my IAT's are a little higher than they were in January when I did the 22 lb. run.
It's pretty well a handful the way it is at 18-19 lbs. so I haven't felt the need to turn it up higher........yet.
There are very few places to open up the engine for testing so I just drive like a white man most of the time.
If you read my build all the info is in there.....it's about ninety plus pages of highs and lows.
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 3&t=127936
My ignition is very conservative and I change it regularly....right now at 250 kpa I range from 18.5-20.0 degrees.
At that boost level it is very important to make sure the WI always works because detonation is right there at all times.
I was working on my cruise timing and fuel and ended up richening it up and lowering the timing to 30 degrees and 14.1 AFR since I was getting bucking and surging at light load cruise. It's really annoying.
You really need to go slowly up the boost range after about 13 lbs. I run almost double the amount of water/alcohol than what is recommended. So far it has worked great except on lower boost and letting off the throttle slowly...it will blubber a bit from too much..
I use a 2.0 gph nozzle and my boost/engine/hp rating only calls for 1.0gph.
I have lost one IAT sensor.... the engine seemed to eat the guts.
You need the IAT sensor after the WI to tell the computer what the air temp is.
There is nothing like the pull of 22 lbs with a little 1679cc engine......
I upgraded my heads this winter and haven't turned the boost up past about 19 lbs.
I'm still doing some tuning but am working such long hours I haven't had time to get the tune closer.
Don't get me wrong....It still drives good but I don't want to push it to that ragged edge until I have time to get a tight tune.
With the hot weather we have right now my IAT's are a little higher than they were in January when I did the 22 lb. run.
It's pretty well a handful the way it is at 18-19 lbs. so I haven't felt the need to turn it up higher........yet.
There are very few places to open up the engine for testing so I just drive like a white man most of the time.
If you read my build all the info is in there.....it's about ninety plus pages of highs and lows.
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 3&t=127936
My ignition is very conservative and I change it regularly....right now at 250 kpa I range from 18.5-20.0 degrees.
At that boost level it is very important to make sure the WI always works because detonation is right there at all times.
I was working on my cruise timing and fuel and ended up richening it up and lowering the timing to 30 degrees and 14.1 AFR since I was getting bucking and surging at light load cruise. It's really annoying.
You really need to go slowly up the boost range after about 13 lbs. I run almost double the amount of water/alcohol than what is recommended. So far it has worked great except on lower boost and letting off the throttle slowly...it will blubber a bit from too much..
I use a 2.0 gph nozzle and my boost/engine/hp rating only calls for 1.0gph.
I have lost one IAT sensor.... the engine seemed to eat the guts.
You need the IAT sensor after the WI to tell the computer what the air temp is.
There is nothing like the pull of 22 lbs with a little 1679cc engine......
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.
- Chip Birks
- Posts: 4003
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:59 pm
Re: Safe boost pressure?
Mine saw up to 24.4psi a bunch a couple years back, 91 octane, no water or methanol added. I haven't pushed it that hard for a couple years though, I grew up a little bit I think. I am pretty content keeping it around 8psi or so on the street. It made 236whp last time it was on the dyno at 8psi. That is enough to make me smile when grabbing gears on the street. That said, it's probably about time to turn up the boost and get it back on the race track...I really want that pump gas 10 second time slip.kobuggy wrote:Stripped I have been searching for an intercooler that will fit my car but haven't found the right one, I'm probably going to have to modify something that's close what I want, but that will be down the road. Thanks Panel, Bob that much IAT drop is definitely worth installing the W/I. Clonebug, I hope you don't mind more question and anyone else please chime in, What do you target for timing and AFR at 20+ lbs? Have you lost any IAT sensors with your W/I upstream? I was planning on putting the nozzle pre throttle body, what is the normal practice pre or post throttle body? how many others on STF have run 20+lbs successfully on a daily driver? Is there anyone at 30lbs with a daily driver?
- kobuggy
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:26 pm
Re: Safe boost pressure?
Is there a general rule for how much tourqe, HP, or RPM stock rods will handle? I did not put the bottom end of this motor together, so I don't know what rods, crank or cam is in it, the guy I bought it from said he bought 3 of these motors from a military auction in California, he was told they where surplus from the FAV military buggy. So if anyone had specs from the FAV that would be great.
- petew
- Posts: 3920
- Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:05 pm
Re: Safe boost pressure?
People always tell you it's "X performance parts" when you just never know. Those motors could have been out of field generators. Our army used a lot of them. Assume stock as a rock. Stock rods and crank (german forged, non-counterweight) are safe for regular pulls up to 5k. Above that and it's hammering the case. The stock rods are supposed to be good for 7k, but really, the whole point of a turbo is making the power/torque at lower revs.
- kobuggy
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:26 pm
Re: Safe boost pressure?
It does have a 78 mm crank I just don't know what brand or quality. It also came with solid rocker shafts, chromoly push rods, brad penn oil, 90.5 forged piston, external oil cooler and the entire thing painted flat black.