Max's 1776 EFI Turbo Build

[maxyray]

Hello all, over the past year I've been planning and collecting parts for my buggy's new turbo engine. Thought I would post up my progress. This is my first engine build and would really appreciated any help and guidance.

Here is the Plan...
Type 1 full flowed case.
1776 (90.5) Mahle B&Ps.
Total Seal Rings
69 stock crank.
I beams.
043 heads semi- hemi. (Not sure of the CR yet as the heads are being CC at the moment)
SS Valves (33-30).
HD single springs, Chrome-moly Retainers & Collets.
HD Lifters.
Chrome-moly Push rods.
Bolt up Rocker Shafts.
Web 119 or Engle
One of Mario's MS EFI Mexican Kits.
EDIS.
Boost Control.
Rev Limiting Control @ 5500.
Lc-1.
Fully Balanced.
Garret GT17 (Ebay Saab 9-5).
Turbosmart Ultragate 38 Wastgate.
Turbosmart Bov.



The engine is going into my manx style beach buggy. I'm not going to drag race it.
Was thinking of running about 5-8psi boost and Was hoping for around 140BHP.

PS thats not me posing in the picture.

[Clonebug]

Nice looking Buggy there Maxray and good save on not admitting on being the driver....

I'm thinking due to what has been said around here that your choice of turbo is going to be too small.

I'm sure Mini will be around to set you or me straight soon.

What is the outlet size of the compressor?

Mine is 1 3/8 inch on the inside of my IHI RHB5 and it heats the air up pretty good by the time I get to 12-13 lbs.

If you find one with an outlet of 1 1/2 inches you should be pretty good unless you want 20 lbs. of boost.

Don't kid yourself.....you won't be happy with 5-8 lbs. after about a half a day.....

Ask me how I know.

You have your eye on some pricey hardware there which is really nice to have but it adds up in a hurry.

You could use a turbo that has a internal wastegate and make yourself a boost controller out of a 1/4 inch brass tee....
A cheap BOV is available from the Saab turbo...about $15.00 or so if you shop around. It's not the fancy billet kind but if you are starting out it works good.
Just remember... it gets really tight in the back due to not much space if you have a rear section that hangs down like a Real Manx or a buggy like mine.

I have no room under the body once the carb, Edis coil and module were placed there.

I'm not sure how high the intake is on that Mexican throttle body but you might have to do some creative plumbing to get the turbo feed under there.
If you need to read a boring build thread on my troubles you can go here.

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 3&t=127936

Like I said.... it gets full in a hurry so plan your layout well. At least you won't have to pull a carb to rejet every 10 minutes like I did...

Clonebug

[maxyray]

Hi Clonebug, Thanks for the advice.

I'm thinking due to what has been said around here that your choice of turbo is going to be too small

You may well be right. Not sure what the outlet size is. Here is some info I've got on it...

SAAB 9 - 3 - 150HP 2.0L P B205E 02 - GT1752 452204 - 0001/ 3/ 4/ 5E 9172123/ 5955703.

Its from a 2000cc so I would of thought it would be fine on a 1776cc

I would rather have the turbo on the smaller side then having a large turbo with a load of lag. Also I've seen a few peeps on here running the GT17 on 1600 and 1641.

Anyone agree, disagree?

Don't kid yourself.....you won't be happy with 5-8 lbs. after about a half a day.....

I hear that

You have your eye on some pricey hardware there which is really nice to have but it adds up in a hurry.

Bit to late for that this list in my first post is all the stuff I've already bought. I'm in the UK where everything is double the price.

You could use a turbo that has a internal wastegate and make yourself a boost controller out of a 1/4 inch brass tee....
A cheap BOV is available from the Saab turbo...about $15.00 or so if you shop around. It's not the fancy billet kind but if you are starting out it works good.
Just remember... it gets really tight in the back due to not much space if you have a rear section that hangs down like a Real Manx or a buggy like mine.

I've read though your build a few times. Its a nice setup. That re-jetting must of been a pain.

Just remember... it gets really tight in the back due to not much space if you have a rear section that hangs down like a Real Manx or a buggy like mine.

Mines a real open mold at the back...


Sorry bad photo of a photo

[Dan Dryden]

Hey Max. I think the gt17 is intended for a 2l diesel rather than petrol engine. I know you don't want lag but an engine constantly spooling can be just as annoying. Maybe try to find a compressor map for that turbo to see if is definitely suitable. Post a copy on here for help if you like?

[seabeebuggy]

Sweet ride.

[maxyray]

Hey Max. I think the gt17 is intended for a 2l diesel rather than petrol engine. I know you don't want lag but an engine constantly spooling can be just as annoying. Maybe try to find a compressor map for that turbo to see if is definitely suitable. Post a copy on here for help if you like?

Good call Dan. Here is a map I found. Can anyone translate it???

Sweet ride.

[Dan Dryden]

Using my limited map reading skills I would say that turbo is most efficient running around 1 bar (14.7psi) of boost and should yield around 175hp.
I don't know so much about trim & ar but they read a little small in my eyes & make me think this turbo would spool quickly but run out of breath at higher revs.
There are people on here though that have a lot better experience than me so you may yet be told I'm wrong....

[maxyray]

Using my limited map reading skills I would say that turbo is most efficient running around 1 bar (14.7psi) of boost and should yield around 175hp.
I don't know so much about trim & ar but they read a little small in my eyes & make me think this turbo would spool quickly but run out of breath at higher revs.
There are people on here though that have a lot better experience than me so you may yet be told I'm wrong....

Thanks Dan. Anyone else got an opinion on this turbo

I should say that I wont be drag racing just driving on the street. Also I'm in the UK so will be running it on 95 RON. Not sure if this makes any difference when choosing a turbo and cam.

Anyone?

[Clonebug]

If it's cheap just run it.....you can always look around for another one later.

It will make boost and be a lot more fun than a N/A engine any day.

I picked up my turbo for $20.00 at a swap meet. That is why I am running it.
It made my project completely affordable.

What is the inside Diameter of the compressor outlet?

Clonebug

[maxyray]

If it's cheap just run it.....you can always look around for another one later.

It will make boost and be a lot more fun than a N/A engine any day.

I picked up my turbo for $20.00 at a swap meet. That is why I am running it.
It made my project completely affordable.

What is the inside Diameter of the compressor outlet?

Clonebug

Hi Clonebug, I got two gt1752 turbos they were very cheep of ebay. No idea off the top of my head what the compressor outlet diameter is. The turbo are in storage at the moment as I'm just about to move.

[dejan]

pressure of 1 bar and CR 8,5:1 , the flywheel 185-190 HP.
Pressure Ratio=2 ---- PR=((PSI)boost x 14,7)+1
intercooling effect =85% BSFC=0,51
2000 = 4.3 (lb/min)
3000 = 11.9 (lb/min)
5500 = 19.4 (lb/min)
6000 = 21.5 (lb/min)

[maxyray]

pressure of 1 bar and CR 8,5:1 , the flywheel 185-190 HP.
Pressure Ratio=2 ---- PR=((PSI)boost x 14,7)+1
intercooling effect =85% BSFC=0,51
2000 = 4.3 (lb/min)
3000 = 11.9 (lb/min)
5500 = 19.4 (lb/min)
6000 = 21.5 (lb/min)

What does that mean?

[yvre]

Those are points you can place on the map.
y axis = absolute pressure (so a value of 2 is 1 bar boost)
x axis = flow (multiplying the values by 10 will give you a 'rough' idea of hp)

So based on my (very) limited knowledge, I'd say you'll be fine.
Keep the CR low (around 7.5:1) - give it 1 bar boost and you'll still be in the most efficient part of the map.

FYI - Your build is very similar to mine, and I plan to use an even smaller turbo on a 1915cc (reman Garrett T3 45 trim I bought for...GBP60... I couldn't pass the bargain)

[maxyray]

Those are points you can place on the map.
y axis = absolute pressure (so a value of 2 is 1 bar boost)
x axis = flow (multiplying the values by 10 will give you a 'rough' idea of hp)

So based on my (very) limited knowledge, I'd say you'll be fine.
Keep the CR low (around 7.5:1) - give it 1 bar boost and you'll still be in the most efficient part of the map.

FYI - Your build is very similar to mine, and I plan to use an even smaller turbo on a 1915cc (reman Garrett T3 45 trim I bought for...GBP60... I couldn't pass the bargain)

Thanks for the teaching. I've plotted the points on it. I got a feeling that I've done it totally wrong. Should of payed more attention at school.

[yvre]

Indeed... You put 3 as pressure ratio instead of 2.