Daily driven aircooled turbos... who's done it?
- Vee Dub Nut
- Posts: 1152
- Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2002 12:01 am
Daily driven aircooled turbos... who's done it?
Thought this would be an interesting topic...
Who of you guys have driven your air-cooled turbo cars as daily drivers?
If so, what are your engine specs, driving conditions (daily mileage, driving type, etc), climate.... How hard do you push the car?
I'm in the middle of my current 2276 turbo build (forged AA pistons, steve tims stgII heads, CB 2288 (K8) cam, t3/t4b) but am potentially looking at my '67 to pick up some daily driving duties down the road, so I'm concerned that I'm headed for trouble. My first reaction was to sell off the turbo stuff and pick up a set of CB throttle bodies and keep the engine NA (I've run it NA previously). The engine combo is good NA and I tend to think it would be more reliable long term. That being said, some challenging opinions have said that if built correctly, the turbo setup should work well too.
I guess there is some truth on both sides I think.. If driven reasonably both options may likely be feasible. I'm not looking for 100k miles from an engine or anything, but I wouldn't want to be fighting the car all the time just to drive it daily for a year or so. I guess if built well, while keeping the boost at milder levels and driving accordingly, it shouldn't be all bad huh?
Thoughts?
I guess my concerns come from the fact that if I were to purposely build an turbo aircooled daily driver, I probably would have went more mild on the entire engine (less cam & heads mostly). Maybe I'm over thinking it...
Who of you guys have driven your air-cooled turbo cars as daily drivers?
If so, what are your engine specs, driving conditions (daily mileage, driving type, etc), climate.... How hard do you push the car?
I'm in the middle of my current 2276 turbo build (forged AA pistons, steve tims stgII heads, CB 2288 (K8) cam, t3/t4b) but am potentially looking at my '67 to pick up some daily driving duties down the road, so I'm concerned that I'm headed for trouble. My first reaction was to sell off the turbo stuff and pick up a set of CB throttle bodies and keep the engine NA (I've run it NA previously). The engine combo is good NA and I tend to think it would be more reliable long term. That being said, some challenging opinions have said that if built correctly, the turbo setup should work well too.
I guess there is some truth on both sides I think.. If driven reasonably both options may likely be feasible. I'm not looking for 100k miles from an engine or anything, but I wouldn't want to be fighting the car all the time just to drive it daily for a year or so. I guess if built well, while keeping the boost at milder levels and driving accordingly, it shouldn't be all bad huh?
Thoughts?
I guess my concerns come from the fact that if I were to purposely build an turbo aircooled daily driver, I probably would have went more mild on the entire engine (less cam & heads mostly). Maybe I'm over thinking it...
- 56speedster
- Posts: 934
- Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:27 pm
Re: Daily driven aircooled turbos... who's done it?
In the spring,summer and fall, the Speedster is pretty much my daily driver unless there is a potential for rain. It's a topless car with no heat and I don't really care to drive it with the top up so if the weather is nice (35 degree mornings that turn into 55 degree afternoons and anything above) I drive the Speedster. I have driven it in cold weather and it loves it but I'm too old to freeze my butt of when I don't have to. If it had an electric top and heat, I would have driven it to work today and it was 27 degrees this morning. Summers here are in the 100's and this past summer, we saw many days (like 90+ days) over 100 and many over 110.
Engine is a 2276, SLR302 cam (very similar to the FK8), 1.4 rockers, CB044 CNC round ports with 42 x 37 valves (ported to clean up the CNC marks), T3/T04E turbo from Shag with boost currently set at 15psi, 1.5" header, 2.5" downpipe and currently running a muffler to keep it quiet. Running fuel and ignition through MS1 V2.2 along with a Labonte alcohol injection kit set to spray at 11psi. I do run a touch of 110 race gas (20%) to prevent detonation but I could easily turn the boost down to 12psi or below and run on 91 octane if I had to.
My driving style is respectable through the neighborhoods but as soon as I hit the highway I have a hard time keeping my foot out of it even if I'm the only person on the road. If traffic is light on the highway, I run it through each gear up to 7500rpm every chance I can. Many times I will even slow down enough to downshift back into 2nd just to do it all over again because it's so darn fun. My daily drive is 25 miles round trip and though I "could" do something to it every day, I don't need to. Ocassionally my wife and I drive up to a mountain resort that is 75 miles away and never worry about breaking down. I'd be more worried about not having a spare than I would the powertrain.
I'd say you will be happier with the turbo setup over an N/A setup. What made you think about turbocharging it again anyways? My guess would be to have more power and adding a turbo to your 2276 will put a grin from ear-to-ear anytime you want. If you do the dual throttle bodies, you'll probably want to add the turbo come summer time so I'd keep moving in the turbo direction if I were you. I really doubt that you will have any problems related to the turbo.
Engine is a 2276, SLR302 cam (very similar to the FK8), 1.4 rockers, CB044 CNC round ports with 42 x 37 valves (ported to clean up the CNC marks), T3/T04E turbo from Shag with boost currently set at 15psi, 1.5" header, 2.5" downpipe and currently running a muffler to keep it quiet. Running fuel and ignition through MS1 V2.2 along with a Labonte alcohol injection kit set to spray at 11psi. I do run a touch of 110 race gas (20%) to prevent detonation but I could easily turn the boost down to 12psi or below and run on 91 octane if I had to.
My driving style is respectable through the neighborhoods but as soon as I hit the highway I have a hard time keeping my foot out of it even if I'm the only person on the road. If traffic is light on the highway, I run it through each gear up to 7500rpm every chance I can. Many times I will even slow down enough to downshift back into 2nd just to do it all over again because it's so darn fun. My daily drive is 25 miles round trip and though I "could" do something to it every day, I don't need to. Ocassionally my wife and I drive up to a mountain resort that is 75 miles away and never worry about breaking down. I'd be more worried about not having a spare than I would the powertrain.
I'd say you will be happier with the turbo setup over an N/A setup. What made you think about turbocharging it again anyways? My guess would be to have more power and adding a turbo to your 2276 will put a grin from ear-to-ear anytime you want. If you do the dual throttle bodies, you'll probably want to add the turbo come summer time so I'd keep moving in the turbo direction if I were you. I really doubt that you will have any problems related to the turbo.
- Vee Dub Nut
- Posts: 1152
- Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2002 12:01 am
Re: Daily driven aircooled turbos... who's done it?
BINGO That mixed with a little bit of OCD/can't leave well enough alone syndrome.56speedster wrote:I'd say you will be happier with the turbo setup over an N/A setup. What made you think about turbocharging it again anyways? My guess would be to have more power and adding a turbo to your 2276 will put a grin from ear-to-ear anytime you want.
I'm listening though... anyone else?
-
- Posts: 4719
- Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:28 pm
Re: Daily driven aircooled turbos... who's done it?
If you have followed my build at all you can see that I have been tinkering with the tune all summer. I Have put 3000 miles on it while driving it to and from work and anywhere else I want to go.
I even towed it 600 miles round trip to Long Beach, Washington for 4th of July long weekend and drove it on the beach.
Granted it hasn't been running perfect all the time nor do I have the jetting to what I would like but it has been completely reliable while tuning and a heck of a lot more fun driving it turboed than with Kadrons on it.
Even a couple lbs. of boost will put a smile on your face and makes my day. Half throttle is a dream!!!
Go for it!!!!
Stock 1600 DP samba engine.
Safari Dune buggy on a 64 pan
Drive about 20 miles round trip for work and have driven it everywhere I can when the weather is above 40 degrees and no rain coming.
There are 4 roundabouts on the trip to work and I can't resist the temptation to put it to the wood every time I pull out of all of them.
Clonebug
I even towed it 600 miles round trip to Long Beach, Washington for 4th of July long weekend and drove it on the beach.
Granted it hasn't been running perfect all the time nor do I have the jetting to what I would like but it has been completely reliable while tuning and a heck of a lot more fun driving it turboed than with Kadrons on it.
Even a couple lbs. of boost will put a smile on your face and makes my day. Half throttle is a dream!!!
Go for it!!!!
Stock 1600 DP samba engine.
Safari Dune buggy on a 64 pan
Drive about 20 miles round trip for work and have driven it everywhere I can when the weather is above 40 degrees and no rain coming.
There are 4 roundabouts on the trip to work and I can't resist the temptation to put it to the wood every time I pull out of all of them.
Clonebug
-
- Posts: 3944
- Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:36 pm
Re: Daily driven aircooled turbos... who's done it?
Vee Dub Nut wrote:Who of you guys have driven your air-cooled turbo cars as daily drivers? If so, what are your engine specs, driving conditions (daily mileage, driving type, etc), climate.... How hard do you push the car?
<raises hand>
1915
T3 turbo
Megasquirt
Apex'i AVC-R boost controller
CB Performance FI hardware, 375cc TurboFord injectors
CB 044 roundports
DIY header
CB 2241 cam/Brazilian lifters
Aluminum case
Empi bolt on valve covers
Straight through bullet style silencer
driving conditions: -20 to 95*F (year round)
daily mileage: at least 30, it's 12 miles to work each way plus whatever other trips I made during the day
driving type: aggressive
How hard do you push the car: only 12 PSI so far, I need better tires and a new turbo to hit 18.
- Vee Dub Nut
- Posts: 1152
- Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2002 12:01 am
Re: Daily driven aircooled turbos... who's done it?
Cool... keep it coming folks
Like I said, I don't have an issue with DD turbo aircooleds in general, I'd just maybe have gone with a milder combo instead of what I have. My engine is large, big heads, big valves, bigger cam, etc, etc... All of these will help the engine make big power, but ends up being harder on the equipment over time. Like valve jobs.. how long can I reasonably expect between valve jobs/headwork? That being said, if I drive my 30 mile daily round trip thats: 5 days a week, 4 weeks in a month, 12 months, so about 7200 miles/year. Ok tack on another 3k or so for other driving and your at 10k or so. Not all that much really in the grand scheme of things. I guess my concerns started with the thought that if I were to build a DD turbo motor from the start, I would have went more mild on the parts to improve longevity.
Like I said, I don't have an issue with DD turbo aircooleds in general, I'd just maybe have gone with a milder combo instead of what I have. My engine is large, big heads, big valves, bigger cam, etc, etc... All of these will help the engine make big power, but ends up being harder on the equipment over time. Like valve jobs.. how long can I reasonably expect between valve jobs/headwork? That being said, if I drive my 30 mile daily round trip thats: 5 days a week, 4 weeks in a month, 12 months, so about 7200 miles/year. Ok tack on another 3k or so for other driving and your at 10k or so. Not all that much really in the grand scheme of things. I guess my concerns started with the thought that if I were to build a DD turbo motor from the start, I would have went more mild on the parts to improve longevity.
-
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:47 am
Re: Daily driven aircooled turbos... who's done it?
i have a works van which i drive during the day
ALL my other (personal ) miles is me bug
2276cc turbo ,
twin jenvey 48mm throttle bodies
cb hideaway header ,
Megasquirt fuel and spark
ford coil packs
scat oval ports heads
webcam 86a
8.5:1 comp
1 bar wastegate spring
IRS backend
lets just say i supprise a lot of people
ALL my other (personal ) miles is me bug
2276cc turbo ,
twin jenvey 48mm throttle bodies
cb hideaway header ,
Megasquirt fuel and spark
ford coil packs
scat oval ports heads
webcam 86a
8.5:1 comp
1 bar wastegate spring
IRS backend
lets just say i supprise a lot of people
- 56speedster
- Posts: 934
- Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:27 pm
Re: Daily driven aircooled turbos... who's done it?
If you're staying with the same heads and cam, nothing should change as far as longetivity by adding the turbo. My engine is very similar to yours and would make nice power as an N/A setup but it makes awesome power with the forced induction. Remember a couple of months ago when I thought I had an issue with my turbo because I was blowing smoke? Turned out that my drain wasn't draining fast enough and in the end, I ended up with 2 good turbo's.
After I put the new turbo on and still had the same issue, I finally removed the turbo completely, installed an air filter on my throttle body and went for a spin. No smoke which made me happy but the decrease in power was like driving uphill in a head wind. Granted a larger throttle body and tuned exhaust would have helped it would not have made my grin re-appear like it does when I'm on boost. I think as far as addictions go, boost beats crack all to heck! (Though I have never cared to try the stuff but I'm sure boost is better - - -plus I like being able to smile with all of my teeth).
My only issue right now is that I'm building too much boost due to a faulty, cheap wastegate though even it is over 2 years old so I really can't complain. I've got a new Tial unit coming from Mario which should arrive tomorrow so I may have to brave the cold morning and drive it to work so I can change it over a pit. Should also give me a chance to try out the heated seat cushion that plugs into the 12v socket. Who knows; I may be driving the Speedster all winter.
After I put the new turbo on and still had the same issue, I finally removed the turbo completely, installed an air filter on my throttle body and went for a spin. No smoke which made me happy but the decrease in power was like driving uphill in a head wind. Granted a larger throttle body and tuned exhaust would have helped it would not have made my grin re-appear like it does when I'm on boost. I think as far as addictions go, boost beats crack all to heck! (Though I have never cared to try the stuff but I'm sure boost is better - - -plus I like being able to smile with all of my teeth).
My only issue right now is that I'm building too much boost due to a faulty, cheap wastegate though even it is over 2 years old so I really can't complain. I've got a new Tial unit coming from Mario which should arrive tomorrow so I may have to brave the cold morning and drive it to work so I can change it over a pit. Should also give me a chance to try out the heated seat cushion that plugs into the 12v socket. Who knows; I may be driving the Speedster all winter.
- volksbugly
- Posts: 634
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:09 am
Re: Daily driven aircooled turbos... who's done it?
I'm glad you asked this, I am currently converting my bug over to dual CB throttle body megasquirt III system. The long term goal is to put a turbo on but this is my daily driver. I work on it during the weekends and drive during the week. anywho.... I think building a turboed engine for a DD is ideal! If you can keep your foot out of it it can become a very economical option. (which I hope to do) Just build the engine so its not crazy compression.
- 56speedster
- Posts: 934
- Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:27 pm
Re: Daily driven aircooled turbos... who's done it?
Forgot to mention that my compression is 8.63:1
-
- Posts: 7400
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 12:01 am
Re: Daily driven aircooled turbos... who's done it?
The FK8 is a lot of cam for a daily driver. I would go milder personally.
-
- Posts: 3944
- Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:36 pm
Re: Daily driven aircooled turbos... who's done it?
Steve Arndt wrote:The FK8 is a lot of cam for a daily driver. I would go milder personally.
It's only 256* @ .050", a lot of people use the same cam with good results. I bought the same cam for my 2276.
-
- Posts: 7400
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 12:01 am
Re: Daily driven aircooled turbos... who's done it?
I have ran many FK8, FK10, and two 86B cams (108 and modified 114LC) in five different 2275 engines.
It all depends on where you want the engine to run and perform really nicely. My experience is with individual runner systems (IDFs, IDAs, and 48mm ITBs). For decent off idle performance you need strong vacuum.
It all depends on where you want the engine to run and perform really nicely. My experience is with individual runner systems (IDFs, IDAs, and 48mm ITBs). For decent off idle performance you need strong vacuum.
- Chip Birks
- Posts: 4003
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:59 pm
Re: Daily driven aircooled turbos... who's done it?
I drove my turbo 2054 with engle tcs20, cb oval ports, 8:1 comp, until the cam went flat(probably bad oil). Rain or shine, snow too. 10psi. I intend to drive the new 2276 a lot, at least during the spring/summer/fall. LOTS of boost, pump gas/E85. Motor has Squishies, over 9:1 comp. New cam, new heads. Should be lots of fun!
- Vee Dub Nut
- Posts: 1152
- Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2002 12:01 am
Re: Daily driven aircooled turbos... who's done it?
Well you guys are certainly doing some pretty good arm twisting... Sounds like I'm just over thinking it.