Turbo motor questions and build

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radiolotek
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Turbo motor questions and build

Post by radiolotek »

So I have decided that the motor for my buggy is going to be a 1915. Man oh man do I have questions. lol I will be gathering the parts needed over the next few months and then building. I'm hoping for a complete motor and FI system by next summer. I am planning on 94 p&c's. Staying with a stock 69 crank. I have a good case already, going to be cut and welded in about 3 weeks. I will be going full flow with an inline cooler and filter. I have all the parts for the Ford EDIS that I will be running.
I know I want a balanced and forged crank.
I was looking at the Engle TCS10 cam. Thoughts?
No idea for rods yet. Suggestions?
So it seems there is no supply of mahle p&c's so what ones should I run now?


Question time....
1) Where is a good place for parts, or places? Quality parts with good prices. I don't know too many of the parts suppliers.
2) Windage tray. Should I run one?
3) Any general ideas or tips are always welcome.
4) I was told 8.5 to 1 compression would be good. Yes, no?



When done it will be FI, DIS, and turbo..........I'm not trying to build the monster motor but I want a reliable one that will occasionally see high revs. Nothing ridiculous. It's a buggy and not a dragster.

And thanks for help now and in the future while I'm building this beast. I am in the process of moving to a bigger garage so any pics will have to wait about a month. :D

Edit: I meant a stock 69mm crank instead of a stroker crank. Not a stock crank. Sorry for the confusion.
Last edited by radiolotek on Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MinamiKotaro
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Re: Turbo motor questions and build

Post by MinamiKotaro »

Wait until you can get a forged and balanced crank to proceed. Without it you'll beat the mains to death in no time.
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radiolotek
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Re: Turbo motor questions and build

Post by radiolotek »

I know I want a good crank. I mentioned that above. Who makes a good crank for a reasonable price? Any other thoughts on the rest? And I posted this in the rebuild forum but it was moved to the forced induction one. Probably should of thought of that one already. lol
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Devastator
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Re: Turbo motor questions and build

Post by Devastator »

radiolotek wrote:Who makes a good crank for a reasonable price?
I'll probably take a beating on this forum for this, but, Scat makes a good crank at a good price. I'm very satisfied with mine.
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MinamiKotaro
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Re: Turbo motor questions and build

Post by MinamiKotaro »

radiolotek wrote:I know I want a good crank. I mentioned that above. Who makes a good crank for a reasonable price? Any other thoughts on the rest? And I posted this in the rebuild forum but it was moved to the forced induction one. Probably should of thought of that one already. lol
We've had good luck with CB cranks.
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miniman82
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Re: Turbo motor questions and build

Post by miniman82 »

I got my nitrided 69mm crank from AJ Simms, but it's the same stuff everyone sells (including CB).
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radiolotek
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Re: Turbo motor questions and build

Post by radiolotek »

Ok so what about rods? What would be good to run? And the p&c's, since the mahle 94's are not around now what ones can I trust?
miniman82
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Re: Turbo motor questions and build

Post by miniman82 »

My build is AJ crank, CB Unitech HD rods with ARP bolts, Mahle 94's.
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radiolotek
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Re: Turbo motor questions and build

Post by radiolotek »

I was looking at those rods but they are sold out at the moment. Also what's the difference between cb's forged chromolly crank and the welded crank? Anyone have advice on the piston and cylinder issue? Also anyone using a windage tray?
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turbobaja
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Re: Turbo motor questions and build

Post by turbobaja »

radiolotek wrote:I will be gathering the parts needed over the next few months and then building. I'm hoping for a complete motor and FI system by next summer. I am planning on 94 p&c's. Staying with a stock 69 crank. I have a good case already, going to be cut and welded in about 3 weeks.
Don't underestimate the amount of time it takes to put a solid, reliable engine together these days, especially for a "beginner". Not saying it's impossible by any means, but dealing with things like the Unitech rods being out of stock for a while and shortage of good/cheap 94mm P/C kits will be what holds you up potentially. You have to either be willing to wait for that vender to restock or re-evaluate your budget and step up to an H-beam rod and a set of Wiseco pistons for example. What do you plan on welding on your "good case"? If it's already deep studded @ #3 top front stud, don't weld it up behind there. Make sure the crank and cam journals are straight, get the full flow inlet tapped, and get all the oil circuit plugs removed and tapped for thread-in plugs so you can get it super clean before assembly. Most vendors carry the same variety of CW forged/nitrided cranks that seem to hold up very well despite being forged in China and "finished" in the US. A welded crank is usually a stock German Forged crank that has counter weights welded on, then machined and straightened, also a fine option for most builds I'd say. Either way, gather all your rotating and reciprocating parts up and look for a local machine shop with a quality rep for "race balance" work and have everything balanced together. In other words, I'd pass on the balance job that many of the venders offer unless you're getting ALL your parts from that one vender. Take your pressure plate, flywheel, crank (with gears assembled), pulley, rods, pistons/pins, and hardware to mount everything, all to get balanced together. Even if you think it will "occasionally see high revs", a good balance job will pay for itself in the long run many times over.

I'd pass on the windage tray, do you have enough ground clearance for a deep sump? 8.5:1 will probably be fine with that cam. Probably a compromise between good off-boost drivability and room for some decent boost on pump gas.

What heads do you have in your budget? And what about the cooling system, I'd get as much of the stock tins and shroud on there as you can, including the T-stat and flaps if possible :wink: .
Karl

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radiolotek
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Re: Turbo motor questions and build

Post by radiolotek »

Wow. Thanks for the info. I was thinking of going that route and getting H rods and weisco pistons. Now what cylinders are sturdy? As for the ground clearence I want to keep it as high as possible because this is going to be a baja buggy not a sand queen. I will be in wooded and rocky areas. And I will be flying down some washboard roads so my concern was with oil being thrown up into the rotational assembly on big jumps. That's why I asked about a windage tray.
My local vw shop said to always weld up behind 3 that's why it needed welding. Is this not the case? When the 94 holes get cut the shop thats doing the full flow and threading the oil plugs for cleaning.
I will be running an intercooler and an oil cooler w/fan. Are the fan shrouds that eliminate the stock oil cooler location not as good at cooling?
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Devastator
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Re: Turbo motor questions and build

Post by Devastator »

I have some unused 94mm Mahle pistons, without rings, or cylinders, and only 3 wrist pins, I'll sell cheap. I had stroker pistons that needed new rings and cylinders, and I simply lost the other wrist pin.
I don't run a windage tray, but do run windage pushrod tubes.
I run an aftermarket, porche style, cooling shroud and an external cooler with a fan, and runs pretty cool. FWIW, I also run alcohol, (E85), which keeps the engine temps lower and is a cheap, high octane fuel.
I had my case, (AS21), sent to Rimco for welding and stroker clearancing. The stud was deep sunk and it was welded behind #3. It can't hurt anything to have it welded if you're sending it out anyway.
Last edited by Devastator on Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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turbobaja
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Re: Turbo motor questions and build

Post by turbobaja »

If you run E85, it doesn't really matter what shroud you use, it's going to run cool. If you want to run "pump gas", consider the amount of research that VW did on the shrouds, and don't take it for granted...they work better stock than any aftermarket option available. The aftermarket 36hp Doghouse shrouds are "pretty good". They keep an oil cooler in the shroud and cool pretty evenly. It's also pretty easy to mount up a set of air control flaps which you can just wire open or run complete with a functional T-stat (highly recommended unless you only drive it in fairly hot climates). Plenty of people run without a cooler inside the shroud with no problems. Something to consider is if you damage the external cooler somehow, if you have one inside the shroud you can just bypass the external one and get home w/out cooking your engine. Plus, the fan puts out plenty of air to keep oil temps in check with the DH shroud (assuming the tins are complete and fit well :wink: ), why not make use of it.

You might consider getting those pistons from Dev if the price is right. Good to have around if nothing else, or you could piece them together with a set of long barrels cut to your needed length and some tool steel wrist pins. Did you ask about restock time on the mahle sets from CB?

From what I understand, the welding done behind the #3 cyl is to prevent cracking that's caused by the case main stud pulling away from the top front head stud, stressing the case every heat cycle until cracks develop across that "thin" area of web in the case. They started running that stud deeper in the case so it bites into material down past the anchor point for the main case stud, this way the two anchor points basically pull towards each other as the engine heat cycles, avoiding the stress cracking in that location. Many people will argue that welding up that area is not only unnecessary, but damages the case from all the heat and potential warping caused by the welding, possibly creating the need for align boring that otherwise wouldn't have been needed, etc. Search around on the subject and make your own decision, don't just do it because that's what the local VW shop always does...educate before you spend :) .

If ground clearance is high priority, you might consider the 4-gear oil pump and dry-sump tank from CB. Lots of woods buggy guys go dry-sump for ground clearance reasons. They are also better at keeping a constant supply of oil to the pump under severe angles, cornering, etc. It'll add a few hundred bucks to the overall costs, but something to consider. An Accusump is another option to a deep sump, but it's no cheaper or less complicated than a drysump really, however you can pre-oil with it before start-ups, and it'll feed oil pressure to the engine even if you're on your roof for a just a bit.
Karl

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radiolotek
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Re: Turbo motor questions and build

Post by radiolotek »

Who want's pictures?lol These were taken quickly in-between box unloading.
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radiolotek
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Re: Turbo motor questions and build

Post by radiolotek »

Doh! So these are starting point pics. This is how she sits right now.
Ok so pics are too big. lol any tips for downsizing them?
Last edited by radiolotek on Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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