250HP 1600dp

With Turbo and Super charging you can create massive horsepower with vw motors.

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Piledriver
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Re: 250HP 1600dp

Post by Piledriver » Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:47 pm

You could perhaps have a air to water setup with a secondary HX in a small cooler under the back seat just for drag strip runs.

a couple valves could redirect flow through it for drag runs with ice/water/salt mix.
Could even have a drain you could plumb in.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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rubenski
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Re: 250HP 1600dp

Post by rubenski » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:36 pm

Ok, thank for the info!
Better to be blown than to suck!

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Kalle
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Re: 250HP 1600dp

Post by Kalle » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:38 am

Hi guys,

It is indeed good to see that there are some interest in this thread. Don't you agree Mario?

My water/ice tank is 25 liters and the IAT will of course depend on a lot of things. Plain water, ice mix, dry ice, boost, outside temperature and so on. With dry ice it is a completely different game. I have to be careful with the amount of dry ice in order not to freeze the water lines and I have to "seal" it in a plastic bag before I put it in the tank. There is a lot of advantages with dry ice btw. It will cool your drinks super quick and it will keep you depot free of mosquito's :)

The weekend is over and as promised please a new mouse engine update;

The status after the 4th season in use is the following. Every 1/4" run was a 10 second run this season and I did approx 120 miles of street driving. I have 6 1/8" mile time slips and 11 1/4" time slips and I believe I have kept all my time slips this season. As mentioned I took the engine out this weekend and here are some pictures;

This is my plenum and intercooler. It is very quick and easy to remove from the engine and it does look dull after a season of racing;

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And from a different angle:

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I`m very happy with my PWR intercooler. Yes they do cost a fair bit more compared to the average China ones but I believe you get what you pay for. A peak inside it:

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Someone requested a picture of the little heat shield between the exhaust and my air filter. This is how it looks like:

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Using a hydraulic clutch management will keep your gearbox alive and improve your 60ft and by doing so also improve your ET. But it will also cause some clutch wear. I service my clutch every season and this is how my clutch looked like after this season. I believe it is cheaper to service your clutch compared to building a new gearbox:

Glazed but no blue color. You can also see that the disc is starting to come apart at some points. It was the 3rd season for this disc;

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My KEP 4 pressure plate was new this season:

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Not more warped compared to what it was out of the box:

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My Black Magic disc was 6.02mm thick when I mounted it and 5.55mm thick after the season. It was 6.29mm thick when new:

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So now over to the exiting stuff.. leak and end-play:

This is the leak on 3 out of 4 cylinders. All spark plugs off, no rockers and of course on a cold engine: 100 psi inn - 97% sealed

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On cylinder #3 I had 5% leak on the exhaust valve and I will consider removing the head to check the valve and the seat. It is acceptable leak but I would like to check anyway. It seeps through the rings on all cylinders but I`m happy with the result. With regards to the end play it is exactly the same as it was, and always have been since I built the engine; 0.15mm

Afterwards it really deserved a good clean:

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So the mouse is still alive and apparently in a good shape. Now my question is; should I tear it apart to check the bearings and lifters or should I continue using as it is and push its limits further? What do you guys think?

Best rgs
Karl

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Kalle
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Re: 250HP 1600dp

Post by Kalle » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:16 am

Speaking of intercoolers. I have always enjoyed this picture of Lundgrens old car. For a long time it was the fastest pan car in the world:

Image

Something to consider if you want to make sure you have enough cooling for when you turn your boost up.

-K-

Clonebug
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Re: 250HP 1600dp

Post by Clonebug » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:34 am

Kalle,

Are you still running a non-counterweighted crank and revving it over 7000 rpm???

The reason I ask is of all the calculators I put numbers into.....the biggest gain in hp is when I raise the rpms from 5200 to 6000 and above.

Cooling the IAT's do help but you get a lot more for every 1000 rpm you add.
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

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Kalle
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Re: 250HP 1600dp

Post by Kalle » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:23 am

Clonebug wrote:Kalle,

Are you still running a non-counterweighted crank and revving it over 7000 rpm???

The reason I ask is of all the calculators I put numbers into.....the biggest gain in hp is when I raise the rpms from 5200 to 6000 and above.

Cooling the IAT's do help but you get a lot more for every 1000 rpm you add.
Hi Clonebug,

No, I use a DPR counter weighted and balanced crank with 8 dowels and a German original weight flywheel.

Best rgs
Kalle

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Chip Birks
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Re: 250HP 1600dp

Post by Chip Birks » Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:09 pm

Niklas ran a non counter weighted crank for a long time right? It was after he put the good crank in the motor that it self destructed.
I'll be using an 8 doweled german crank in mine, non counterweighted...at least for now. I fully intend to rev it as high as I need to. I am using a case that I consider a worthy sacrificial offering to the gods of speed. If the motor proves itself, then maybe I'll put some $$$ into a better crank.

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Re: 250HP 1600dp

Post by MarioVelotta » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:04 pm

Kalle wrote:Hi guys,
It is indeed good to see that there are some interest in this thread. Don't you agree Mario?
Absolutely! I check in every now and again to see what's going on :) Clonebug stopped by my new shop the other day and this is the only stuff we talked about, :mrgreen:

Chip and I go bacl and forth alot as well. I was just asking him his opinion on an FK42 on 112lc's for a mouse as I am very CAM stupid. What are your thoughts?

Thanks for continuing to add awesome info to this thread for everyone to enjoy and drool over :wink:
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1600dp - 18sec @ 0psi :lol:
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Re: 250HP 1600dp

Post by Kalle » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:12 am

MarioVelotta wrote: Absolutely! I check in every now and again to see what's going on :) Clonebug stopped by my new shop the other day and this is the only stuff we talked about, :mrgreen:

Chip and I go bacl and forth alot as well. I was just asking him his opinion on an FK42 on 112lc's for a mouse as I am very CAM stupid. What are your thoughts?

Thanks for continuing to add awesome info to this thread for everyone to enjoy and drool over :wink:
Hi Mario and a happy new year to you and yours. It is nice to know that you keep an eye on us (me) so that you can step in and tell me to behave when needed :wink:

Your cam choice will depend on a lot of things. For example there is no need for a high lift and rather aggressive cam if your heads do not support it etc. I have used Engine Analyzer to "try out" different camshafts on my mouse engine and there is little or almost no effect by changing cam unless I do something with my smallish heads. That said, my experience with the FK series is with the bigger cams like the FK45, FK46 and FK47. In a mag case I would never go bigger than the FK45 because of the aggressive ramps. Looking at the FK42 it has 13.25mm lift with 1.4 rockers and 246 duration @ 0.50. That is a tad more lift compared to my cam but the same duration. I would give it a go especially if you already have it.

Best rgs
-K-

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Kalle
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Re: 250HP 1600dp

Post by Kalle » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:40 am

Speaking of non counterweight cranks and FK series cams. JPM used a non counterweight crank and a FK45 in his experimental 1600ccm NA mouse engine project:

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A 40mm intake valve in 86mm bore cylinder flowed some very impressive numbers which answer the question earlier in this thread about how tight it would be around the valve and cylinder wall:

Flow numbers CFM at 25"H2O.

lift(mm) Flow(intake) Flow(exhaust)
2 42,6 39,5
4 81,3 73,3
6 111,4 96,5
8 136,7 115,5
10 159,4 130,3
12 177,5 141,8
14 188,2 148,5
16 194,9 152,5

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And here is the finished engine with the custom exhaust tuned to 8000rpm as the rest of the engine. The results after some tuning on his rolling road:

POWER: 195hp @ 7670rpms
TORQUE:141lbs @ 6100rpms


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Enjoy the sound of a mouse engine screaming with a non counterweight crank @ 8500 rpms:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9868ihgGVk8

And then imagine the result if you boosted that little engine with 35 psi :D :D :D

-K-

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Re: 250HP 1600dp

Post by MarioVelotta » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:24 pm

Kalle wrote:Looking at the FK42 it has 13.25mm lift with 1.4 rockers and 246 duration @ 0.50. That is a tad more lift compared to my cam but the same duration. I would give it a go especially if you already have it.
Do you think it would net less HP on 112's than on 108lc's like Niklas when he went from 108 to 112? Are you on 108's as well?
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2276 Turbo - 92 Octane
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1600dp - 18sec @ 0psi :lol:
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Kalle
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Re: 250HP 1600dp

Post by Kalle » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:14 pm

I`m on 112.

I think this one explains the effect of the LC rather well:

LOBE SEPARATION ANGLE

114-112 Deg. = Wide
112-110 Deg. = Moderately Wide
110-108 Deg. = Moderate
108-106 Deg. = Moderately Tight
106-104 Deg. = Tight
Below 104 Deg. = Extremely Tight

VARYING LOBE SEPARATION ANGLE
Tighten.................................................Widen
Moves Torque to Lower RPM.................Raise Torque to Higher RPM
Increases Maximum Torque..................Reduces Maximum Torque
Narrow Power Band..............................Broadens Power Band
Builds Higher Cylinder Pressure............Reduce Maximum Cylinder Pressure
Increase Chance of Engine Knock.........Decrease Chance of Engine Knock.
Increase Cranking Compression...........Decrease Cranking Compression
Increase Effective Compression............Decrease Effective Compression
Idle Vacuum is Reduced........................Idle Vacuum is Increased
Idle Quality Suffers...............................Idle Quality Improves
Open Valve-Overlap Increases.............Open Valve-Overlap Decreases
Closed Valve-Overlap Increases...........Closed Valve-Overlap Decreases
Natural EGR Effect Increases................Natural EGR Effect is Reduced
Decreases Piston-to-Valve Clearance...Increases Piston-to-Valve Clearance

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MarioVelotta
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Re: 250HP 1600dp

Post by MarioVelotta » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:47 pm

Thanks!

:mrgreen:
The Dub Shop
Mario@thedubshop.net
2276 Turbo - 92 Octane
11.537 @ 115.74mph - 15psi
1600dp - 18sec @ 0psi :lol:
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Kalle
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Re: 250HP 1600dp

Post by Kalle » Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:09 am

A small update;

I have a set of CB Mini Wedgeport heads and I consider copying their intake channel. My current ports are a great deal smaller compared to them but then again my cam does not lift a whole lot. I could change my intake rockers to some 1.5`s or 1.6`s in order to increase the lift to support the bigger intake channel.

More to come.

Best rgs
BB

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Kalle
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Re: 250HP 1600dp

Post by Kalle » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:08 am

I should perhaps skip my mouse engine and instead install this:

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What a cool and special one-off engine! 450hp NA. Approx 900 at 15psi and 1350hp at 30psi 8) 8)

-K-

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