250HP+ 1600DP Mouse Motor

[MarioVelotta]

Step away and look what happens,

Motor will be EFI, and turbo. Those are both givens.

Shag you have my attention! Special cams?

I have a perfect 69mm crank already, 311b rods. I actually have everything for a good 1915. I took one apart because of lifter bore failure. I want small displacement for the "wow" factor. It's easy to say "I make 300hp with a 2332" but it isn't with a small motor. This motor will be going in my buggy so I am not as concerned with heat and it is light.

I am going to use this combo to show people about my EFI stuff. It will be really easy since everything is exposed. I was going to just do a stand motor but that is a waste now that I have thought about it for a year... I want people to play with my computer and see what the changed do. And at the end of the day, reload my tune and be on my merry way burning rubber.

I haven't set a budget yet, that is the kind of the purpose of this thread. I need somewhere to start. I like what has been put on the table so far, keep it coming

[ToRy 70]

In the back of my head I've always had a project idea for an "idiot-proof" car, like if you were building it for someone who knew nothing about cars.

Not necessarily 200hp... but let's say a stock displacement mexi-engine longblock, modest port job, keep the hydraulic valvetrain, all the tin, and maybe even the AC! Do a blow-thru setup, MS, small GT series turbo. Keep the exhaust mellow.

In a Ghia, there's plenty of room to brace in a small air/air intercooler flush under the decklid, possibly under a 356 grill grafted in? And then the air could be ducted from under the intercooler out the back, exiting through holes behind the license plate. No fans, pumps, water, or moving parts...

It would be a fun car with plenty of zip, but no axle-breaking power. All you'd have to do is change the oil! Heck, I want one right now!

[turbobaja]

I'd qualify 200hp as "axle breaking power" if it's in the wrong hands . I like your original goal much better for the kind of experimental engine you're talking about, especially if you're going to be letting other people drive it...in a FG buggy . The easiest way to make big HP #s is with rpm. Spin it to 7,500rpm and hardly any boost is needed. Now try to reach that same power level @ 5-6,000rpm and it takes a little bit different recipe.

Are you looking to reach your goal @ the flywheel, or on a chassis dyno? Torque goal??

It sounds like a fun project for sure Mario, maybe I can get some seat time in it one day and convert to the EFI/crank triggered side of life .

[my_medusa]

lets do parallel projekts.
i changed my ex 1200GT projekt that killed a 1200cc rod in fact of to much torque to a:

1641cc
(87x69)mm forged/stock
041 (39/35)mm heads
CR something between 8:1-8,5:1
1600i manifold changed a bit for better flow
CB cherater 2280 cam with 1,3:1 rockers
stock 311B rods refreshed
200mm flywheel ballanced with crank
stage 1 kennedy ballanced

MS1 extra EDIS
watercooled intercooler
4-2 header 4-2 + 3-1 for k03 twin scroll (from a bmw mini cooper S 175-184 hp) that is good for 220hp an the flywheel and high boost (up to 1,8 bar at 200hp via map)

limiting factor will be first the end castings + manifold., sec. the to early turbo+ header i think.
so i will build the low down torquer with also low rpm peak.
i had on the 1200cc 0,8 bar max in first gear
goal also 200 hp and high torque (gear box killer or lets call it supercharger feeling on a turbo)

[Clonebug]

I would let you use my buggy as a test bed!!

All you have to do is put the FI intakes on and wire the injectors and you are good to go!!!

Clonebug

[70dragbug]

limiting factor will be first the end castings + manifold., sec. the to early turbo+ header i think.

I don´t think that will be a limiting factor at all.Turbob here on the forums ran a 2276 turbo with 1600i end castings and throttlebody.IIRC he was putting out around 330hp at that time (many many moons ago ).The exhaust shouldn´t be a problem either,usually a smaller diameter than what you would use for NA is better for turbo.I think the turbo itself may be too small.Maybe not for 200hp,but I think with a larger turbo you would make 200hp with less boost.Less boost means less heat and a better tune.

[my_medusa]

limiting factor will be first the end castings + manifold., sec. the to early turbo+ header i think.

I don´t think that will be a limiting factor at all.Turbob here on the forums ran a 2276 turbo with 1600i end castings and throttlebody.IIRC he was putting out around 330hp at that time (many many moons ago ).The exhaust shouldn´t be a problem either,usually a smaller diameter than what you would use for NA is better for turbo.I think the turbo itself may be too small.Maybe not for 200hp,but I think with a larger turbo you would make 200hp with less boost.Less boost means less heat and a better tune.

but not with the 1600i right. its with that other efi plenum + endcastings (the german one? this one that is mounted on the gerarator stand)
otherwise...red1600i in our german forum has dynoed 110+ hp out of a 1700i with these endcastings on a N/A engine.
the k03 twin scroll turbo has seen 220 hp at the wheels of a mini cooper s. over the map but the turbin isn't that small. the turbo looks very small but it isn't. this is a torquer engine. for that i need boost.

today i machined my heads for double valve springs and started porting+ porting the manifolds for the heads. pistons arrived today. so i have everything together.

[70dragbug]

That´s good to hear Chris! The mini turbo will be enough for a good street engine,I´m sure.I was just a little confused as to why you would want or consider 1,8 bar boost for 200-220~ish horsepower.All that heat for relatively low power?

[dejan]

I have a dilemma about 1600 turbo 200hp of wheel

What should be the attitude of Target A/F: (9,10,11,12)

CFM map 18psi - 1600
http://cybrina.mine.nu:8080/WebModule2/ ... mit=Submit

230HP
Target A/F: 12
BSFC: 0.55

Engine Redline: 7800 rpms
Peak Power at: 6800 rpms
Max Boost at: 3800 rpms
Min Boost at: 2500 rpms

RpM 5300 7300 7800

Airflow (cfm): 310 406 424





http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/gra ... duct_id=38



http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/gra ... duct_id=78

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/gra ... uct_id=113

Twin Tubo Gt 1544

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/gra ... duct_id=19

[supaninja]

dejan- looking at your numbers and the compressor maps and my love for this turbo, I am going to suggest the GT2871r with a .63 or .64 AR turbine housing. http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mv ... y_Code=GRT i ran the .86AR turbo on a larger motor and I was really really impressed with it, awesome turbo, and it's a nice small package too.

[MarioVelotta]

Damn, I started a reply and lost it all.... to sum it up

I have a misu 13t from a WRX I will use

I have a Web 86b and lifters I would like to use with a compression around 9.5:1

Boost set to 15psi, I have a good sized air to air intercooler to use also

I'm looking into some of the piston and cylinder options now

[my_medusa]

mario, i belive this is a very good turbo for your projekt. go for it.

That´s good to hear Chris! The mini turbo will be enough for a good street engine,I´m sure.I was just a little confused as to why you would want or consider 1,8 bar boost for 200-220~ish horsepower.All that heat for relatively low power?

the turbo will spool fast but it's my later 36 hp turbo, as long the engine is not done i use it in the 1641cc and in fact of the cam (cb cheater) i will need boost. the 1,8 bar is just the limit. i will not go over 20psi and in normal use i will max 14-15psi.
the thing is peak hp is just a point of a line, i will build a low rpm torquer for now.

[joosep]

[quote="dejan"]
What should be the attitude of Target A/F: (9,10,11,12)

9 and 10 are deam rich and will kill lambda sensors. There will be some missed sprks and the lambda will not tell you the truth then.
I try to keep it 12.0 with high boost. and 12,5 up to 15 or 20 PSI
11 should be cooler and safer but with less power I Think

[dejan]

What should be the attitude of Target A/F: (9,10,11,12)

9 and 10 are deam rich and will kill lambda sensors. There will be some missed sprks and the lambda will not tell you the truth then.
I try to keep it 12.0 with high boost. and 12,5 up to 15 or 20 PSI
11 should be cooler and safer but with less power I Think

Thank you so much. With Target A/F: 12 and I thought it would be enough and 20 psi

[dejan]

dejan- looking at your numbers and the compressor maps and my love for this turbo, I am going to suggest the GT2871r with a .63 or .64 AR turbine housing. http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mv ... y_Code=GRT i ran the .86AR turbo on a larger motor and I was really really impressed with it, awesome turbo, and it's a nice small package too.

This is good advice and I can easily reach GT2871r with a .63 or .64 AR or T3 trim60 some trucks use these spaces.We therefore look