250HP+ 1600DP Mouse Motor

[kubelguy13]

Get a set of new single port heads and put some 40x35 valves in them.Coat them for added heat protection.
Weld in a single injector bung each side and drop in some ID1000's. Roller cam roller rockers. An original German crank counterweighted. Forged Pistons. Go nuts .



Is this supposed to be budgeted?

[Chip Birks]

I changed my post to make this a little harder of a goal. What would need to be done for 200HP out of a 1600

Just swap all the stuff from your car onto a 1600.

I've considered doing this as well. Just too see what I could get out of one. Wonder if it would even spool the turbo before valves were floating...would definitely be a fun little adventure!

[volksbugly]

88mm pistons X 66mm stroke + lightest weight everything you can find + rollercam + roller rockers + huge high RPM turbo cam, + large turbo + electronic boost control solenoid, + high flow BOV + Megasquirt = win!

I wanna hear it sound like an F1

[my_medusa]

Get a set of new single port heads and put some 40x35 valves in them.Coat them for added heat protection.
Weld in a single injector bung each side and drop in some ID1000's. Roller cam roller rockers. An original German crank counterweighted. Forged Pistons. Go nuts .



Is this supposed to be budgeted?

at first the headline says DP.
and sec. this will not work and will not be save.
think about the "zündfolge" 1-4-3-2 signe port injection you need a siamese program that will be extreme hard to handle and if there is just something not correct the one cylinder will get a part of the next to him will run fater and the other leaner...your lambdatool will tell you good ones and your piston will burn.
but wet manifold will work. throttle body injection or direktly 2 huge or how many you wand injectors after it. or before. depends on you.
in a budget singleport turbo i would try a metro turbo carb SU + intercooler.


question to you mario:
are there some things that you definitly will use?
like. efi or carb. should it be in a budget or could coast something?
there are alot of ways to get 200hp out of a 1600dp turbo.

my first option would say. stock heads. rods. crank. efi. forged pistons.
easy over the thumb calculations woud say. make the base engine to make 85hp than you will need definitly under 20 psi to have your 200hp.

[Soul]

Here's another link to a 1679cc that makes roughly 85hp, (70 RWHP) with a single 40mm dell. I know you're doing a 1600dp but I think this would get you in the ballpark. Lower the CR to 8.0:1, run your 85.5 slugs, and jugs, and definately go EFI and blow on it.

Here is the recipe:
69X88
DPR 69mm CT/WT crank
Stock 311B rods
FK 41 cam, 112* LC
.035 deck, 9.6:1 CR static
Single Dellorto 40 with 34 vents
Genuine 041 heads, no port work, competition valve job, port fluffing only
1.4 ratio rocker
Manton pushrods


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=444730

[shag55]

That sounds good to me Soul. Except use one of my cams and the new Chinese heads with 40x35, CB 650 springs and tai retainers. 200 easy!

[andy198712]

new chinese heads? not seen those yet, links?

[joosep]

MS2.2 is not expensive problem is how to tune (fine tune)

It´s me who had translate tuning manuals to estonian before starting but when english is your motherlanguage then tuning is about few hours work after few weeks reading and its fun. Tuning programs are all in english and MS 1 is too easy for beeing afraid. there are not much options but you can get right amount of fuel with 15-30 minutes and you just search for somebodys spark table and tune it better with listening detonation. you can do all this on streets. With EFI you can idle nicely eaven with lage cam.

Taking it all together:
stock 1600 will make 200hp but it doesn´t last long. it takes 25PSI atlest I think. Stock pistons dont like this heat and when you boost it hardly more than a minute the piston heads go so hot that stock tolerance will be not enough. Result is that sthe space between rings contacts with barrel. when piston moves up it presses the space between rings down and locks the second ring (Beleve me, Ive seen it 3 times already but still using the same pistons once it broke my barrel too.

when you want it last better choose something (but you dont have to when you want to rebuild it few times a year :

1) coating cylinder heads somehow
2) better cooling for heads
3) make oil squirters under pistons somehow (there are few ways for that)
4) buy better pistons or coat stock ones
5) make more powerful engine and you don´t need that much boost (heads, cam, spin it higher or something....)
6) go big with intercooler
7) use racing fuel

totally stock lasted under 20PSI with no problems. Heat problems came when turbo went out of its map (25-30PSI)

I have never broken stock: crank, rods, valvetrain, heads. Only pistons and barrels have made some problems because of my own mistakes.

[shag55]

No links

[Turbo_Manx_Maniac]

What I'm interested in is what will be the difference in cost building a 200 hp 1600, vs a turbo charged 1915, vs a N/A 2332. Then let's talk longevity. Then let's talk drivability.

[joosep]

I got your point. Mine is that I´ms using stock parts because they cost nothing I just like to know the limit of the stock parts. I´m using used parts and my engines never cost more than 300$ but they pull 12s on one good day

Another reason would be some class for racing but that´s not my reason. (We can´t race almoust at all with that light car....can race only in bracket)

I was thinking about buying new piston set and noticed that the price is same on 85,5 and 94. First idea was to buy 94 ofcourse.....i looked the way for working with the case and heads but it costs more than piston-barrel set. At this point I decided to pull to 12s first with stock parts and collect some money for another engine.....but I started reading type 4 engines and now I have nice 2L type 4 waiting for pushing the limits 200hp with 1600 and 300hp with 2000cc is my target. When thouse 2 have been done I hope to be enouh smart to choose the type and build real engine with expensive parts.

[volksbugly]

ok I guess first things first.

What would you use the engine for? Drag strip, auto-X, just for fun, or something more reliable?

[miniman82]

What I'm interested in is what will be the difference in cost building a 200 hp 1600, vs a turbo charged 1915, vs a N/A 2332. Then let's talk longevity. Then let's talk drivability.

I DD my 1915T every day to work, nearly 200 HP and dead reliable and idles like a stocker.

[Turbo_Manx_Maniac]

What I'm interested in is what will be the difference in cost building a 200 hp 1600, vs a turbo charged 1915, vs a N/A 2332. Then let's talk longevity. Then let's talk drivability.

I DD my 1915T every day to work, nearly 200 HP and dead reliable and idles like a stocker.

My point was it's much easier with a turbo 1915 or 2332 to get 200 hp, reliably, and cheaper than with a 1600.

[MarioVelotta]

Step away and look what happens,

Motor will be EFI, and turbo. Those are both givens.

Shag you have my attention! Special cams?

I have a perfect 69mm crank already, 311b rods. I actually have everything for a good 1915. I took one apart because of lifter bore failure. I want small displacement for the "wow" factor. It's easy to say "I make 300hp with a 2332" but it isn't with a small motor. This motor will be going in my buggy so I am not as concerned with heat and it is light.

I am going to use this combo to show people about my EFI stuff. It will be really easy since everything is exposed. I was going to just do a stand motor but that is a waste now that I have thought about it for a year... I want people to play with my computer and see what the changed do. And at the end of the day, reload my tune and be on my merry way burning rubber.

I haven't set a budget yet, that is the kind of the purpose of this thread. I need somewhere to start. I like what has been put on the table so far, keep it coming