"Pre-intercooler" revisited

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Master slacker
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Re: Can't fit an intercooler?

Post by Master slacker »

ToRy 70 wrote:I wonder what the temperature drop would be... probably not much but who knows?
The heat transfer from the body of the fin is as follows (assuming an adiabatic tip):

Q = sqrt [ h * P * k * Ab ] * ( Tb - Tamb ) * tanh ( m * L )

where

P = 2 * ( widthfin + thicknessfin )
Ab = w * t
L = fin length
m = sqrt [ h * P / ( k * Ab ) ]
h = film coefficient

I wouldn't buy their product just on principle. If they can't figure out what the hell it is they're selling, they shouldn't be selling it. And no, those can't possibly remove much heat at all unless the cooling medium in the finned area is cold water. Even then... :?
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ToRy 70
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Re: Can't fit an intercooler?

Post by ToRy 70 »

RLeeBain wrote:Here's a thought, and would probably be a little more accurate:
Grab a couple intake air temp. sensors from the junkyard, install them before and after the cooler. just hook up a voltmeter to each pair of wires on the IAT's and compare the voltages.
I agree that that would be more accurate, but I'm looking to do a quick and dirty test by comparing temps with a straight pipe, and the feedback is more tangible with actual temperatures.
Master slacker wrote: I wouldn't buy their product just on principle. If they can't figure out what the hell it is they're selling, they shouldn't be selling it.
I agree... it's pretty bogus. That's why I'll figure I'll test one and hand it off to dad to make a cooling core for his new little 110 TIG welder. I'll try to test it the best way I can, and post my findings. It shipped today.
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ToRy 70
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Re: Can't fit an intercooler?

Post by ToRy 70 »

Ok guys, results are in.

This is nowhere near a true test of the part: for that you would log real numbers on a real car, real chassis dyno, real operating temps monitored by real sensors, etc. This was just a quick proof of concept test.

I had two sections of 2 inch aluminum tube with a 1/2" hole drilled in each. Then I took small pieces of scotchbrite (tough abrasive, like a rough sponge) and inserted them so that I could see them through the drilled holes. The scotchbrite provided a background for the laser thermometer to read on, and it allowed air and heat to pass through because it's very light and fibrous.

Then, I attached the test pieces in between. This allowed me to read the temperature before and after each piece of tubing. The total length of the "pre-intercooler" was 9 inches ( 6" of fins, 1.5" on each end for coupling purposes), so I included a 9" long piece of regular 2 inch tubing as a control subject.

The industrial heat gun worked well as a hot air source, there was quite a bit of hot airflow coming out of the end of the experiment tubing. Nothing like the airspeed and pressure of a turbo compressor, but you understand. The outside temperature was a nice 75 degrees, and I tested inlet temps from 150 to 360F. I took temperatures in intervals between the min and max temps, and tried to be as consistent as possible. I gathered 15 inlet and outlet samples for each test. Here are the results.

The regular 9" piece of tubing was good for about a 100 degree drop between the two test points (average of 108.6). I'm not saying that's how a real intake on a real car would behave, but it sets up some base numbers for the next test. The 100 degree drop seemed pretty consistent throughout the temperature range.

The extruded-fin tube showed a larger drop. The average temperature drop was 136.8F, or a 28.2 degree improvement over the average drop of the regular tubing.

Now, something of interest: for the lower temps tested, the two tubes seemed to perform about the same (about a 100 degree difference in inlet and outlet temps). However, once the inlet temp started climbing above 240, the extruded-fin tube began outperforming the regular tube. For the control tube, a sample inlet temp of 360 reflected an outlet temperature of 255 (105 degree drop). The extruded tubing showed a drop from 360 to 190, or a 170 degree drop, a 65 degree improvement! At this point, I kept the heatgun turned on, and the post-tube temperatures refused to go above 200F.

Yes, I realize a 75 degree ambient temperature is a very cool environment(if you have well-sealed tinware on your ACVW, you should actually have close to ambient engine bay temps :P ), and you would really have to have an inefficient compressor to pump out 360F boost. So, make of this crude data what you will.

I took measurements of this thing, and the 6 inches of fins have as much external surface area as 37 inches of 2 inch tubing. Like the ad says, this component is not meant to replace or even mimic a real intercooler. It is meant to shave off a bit of heat so your intercooler doesn't have to work as hard. Or if you have no intercooler, it might be better than nothing. Whether it's worth 40 bucks is up to you.
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WickedWagens
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Re: Can't fit an intercooler?

Post by WickedWagens »

Thanks for being our guinea pig! I still think the price is a little high, but it seems to do "something".
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ToRy 70
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Re: Can't fit an intercooler?

Post by ToRy 70 »

This summer I may move my intercooler from the top of the fan shroud to inside the package tray ( so i can close the decklid all the way). If I do I may incorporate one of these into the new intake... albeit with some "improvements" to add some internal surface area and hopefully more useful heat transfer characteristics. Stay tuned...
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MarioVelotta
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Re: Can't fit an intercooler?

Post by MarioVelotta »

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ToRy 70
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Re: Can't fit an intercooler?

Post by ToRy 70 »

Ok, here's what I've been tinkering with on my weekend home from school. Here's a shot of the 2 and 3 inch finned tubes, I just thought they looked cool.
Image

I wanted to figure out a way to force the intake air against the walls to promote more heat transfer, and increase the internal surface area. I had a few different ideas but it's really hard to construct lots of surface area inside a tube without resorting to dip brazing and other tedious stuff. So I decided on inserting another tube that would take up room and provide surface area.

(sorry I don't know why this picture came out so small)
Image

The idea is that the remaining cross-sectional area (outer ring) has the same C.S.A. as a normal 2 inch tube. So by sizing up on the finned tube I'm not losing any internal intake volume. But if I just left the tube in there with no way of venting, it would quickly become a giant heat-soaked tube of uselessness. So, I needed to get airflow inside too. Notice the 3/4" holes on the transition cones.

Image

A 3/4" tube is added.
Image

I think you guys can see where I'm going with this.

Image

Image

Image

And yes, I realize by adding this internal assembly I'm adding a lot of drag and restriction over a normal smooth section of tube. I figured it will make up for it because it increases the internal surface area by 2.55 times and the external surface area by 5.63 times for a given 9 inch length of tube.

After both ends are assembled and welded (start with the inside and move out), I'm going to feed the internal manifold with a hose plumbed into the VW fan shroud. All I need to do is drill a hole in the shroud and bolt or weld on a 3/4" steel tube for the hose. After the intercooler, I will probably route the hose to vent under the apron tin. What's great about using the fan for a pressurized air source is that it's only slightly warmer than ambient air temps, it's always on with the engine, and the airflow increases with RPM. What do you guys think?
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CBDZ
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Re: "Pre-intercooler" revisited

Post by CBDZ »

...or get really crazy and pump some water through it.
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ToRy 70
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Re: "Pre-intercooler" revisited

Post by ToRy 70 »

I already have a water intercooler :D
Although that could work too. But for the space you might as well get a PWR which is a real intercooler.

This is just for fun. If anyone is interested, I might be willing to make a few of these (at cost) and give them to people for testing, datalogging setups preferable. If anyone wants to be a guinea pig this summer, let me know.

Otherwise, the only way I'll know if these work is to make TWO new intake pipes: one with and one without the cooler. I could have a splice-in with silicone boots but I like to have as few boots/clamps as possible on my final setup.
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