EFI parts gathering

[buguy]

Thanks I will read up on those links. I do want boost control and water injection.

[buguy]

Oh man that's not so hard to understand. So it looks like batch fire for me.
I also just watched a video from "sloppy mechanics" on wiring a megasquirt. That's not so bad either! Although they didn't talk much about the ignition. Gotta go! More reading to do!

[terryly]

You should pick up a mega squirt based ecu. Mario's or a pre assembled one from DIY Autotune If your handy with a soldering iron assemble one yourself. Pretty Economical and you can do a little at a time. When I decided to do mine I started in the fall and in the spring I was running it. In between that time I did some research. Talked to Mario Ordered MS 3pro from him ordered my crank trigger, serpentine belt and MPH throttle bodies from VW Speed shop. Pulled the motor out and started bolting pieces on as they arrived. Got Mario to Give me a start tune. First start went well couple little things to sort out. Played with the tune a little. Then went sequential and continued tuning seem to run pretty nice. Way better than carbs/dist. Then I started to talk with a remote tuner Scott from Elutions designs. Made a deal with him couple hundred bucks. Sent him a data log he found through the logs my idle control valve was leaking. I disconnected it & sent him another data log, car ran OK. We went back and forth for 3-4 weeks I send a data log he sends me a tune [ I could only get to my car on the weekends] Probably sent him 7-8 data logs in total. He would look them over make some changes and send you a tune back in a couple hours to a day. He tells you what he thinks and wants to try next I thought the car started, warmed up and went real good. When we changed the tuning strategy and used a blend of both Alpha N and speed density [ ITB MODE] instead of one or the other. WOW did that wake the car up it just became an animal way fun Has real nice tip in and you can idle along real easy, lean on it a little and it goes real good, punch it well holy bejeezuss now it just explodes all angry like For my off road car fuel injection is way up there making my car way more drive-able with manners and still go like a raped ape. [ can't wait to see what a inter-cooled meth injected turbo will be like ] I started having so much fun and the car ran so good I quit talking to Scott and quit playing with the tune and just used it I know this turbo nonsense will take some more tuning and I will probably call Scott up again for guidance So ya go mega squirt bra End of several beer on a school night post
take care
Terry

[terryly]

Oh man that's not so hard to understand. So it looks like batch fire for me.
I also just watched a video from "sloppy mechanics" on wiring a megasquirt. That's not so bad either! Although they didn't talk much about the ignition. Gotta go! More reading to do!

Leave yourself open I think sequential really can improve low and mid range drive-ability especially on a monster not so important on a track or weekend car. For me putting through the mountain trails mostly I just take it easy watch birds trees wild life and throttle control is important to me. Line up with a good hill or a mud hole and you want to be able to turn it on but mostly its just putting around .....well unless your on some ole logging road then it's RALLY TIME check this place out they are in my home town lots of good fuel injection info and I really considered them as I'm not so much about tuning as the end result http://www.sdsefi.com/tech.html
blurb on sequential http://www.sdsefi.com/techseq.htm

[buguy]

Yeah I think I will be using a MS based system. I've been looking over what each system does. I'm think I will go with batch fire injection. Ignition is still up in the air. It looks like MS2 will only do a single coil or EDIS. I say only, but that may enough for me, I really don't know yet. Also it looks like MS3 will handle nitrous, water injection, boost control, and EGT. Those are all good features for me. Will also do COP and wasted spark. I don't know if that stuff can be added to MS2 or not yet.

[terryly]

Your asking fuel injection questions that would probably get more traffic in the engine management section if ya get all serious on us

[terryly]

There is a ton of smart guys there that may not pay a bunch of attn to the boost side I soaked that stuff up like a sponge

[buguy]

How bout that! I didn't know that was even there. I bookmarked this site on the forced induction section and I don't think I've ever even looked around here before!

[terryly]

[terryly]

[Clonebug]

Why make it more complicated trying to run 4 ignition maps and four fuel maps. I really doubt you will gain enough to make it worth the extra cost and hassle.
In order to do Sequential fuel you will need 5 02 Sensors........for how much gain????? Especially if you are just starting out and don't even know how to tune yet.
Keep it simple........

Wasted Spark and batch fire will get you down the road just as nicely as all the extras......Spend the money on a good intercooler or Water Injection.
You can also skip some of the add ons too since they add costs.
Some options and some you need......

Tach output.....you will want this but it takes an output and sometimes is a challenge to get to work on certain tachs. Mine runs through the IAC relay socket.
Boost control........( you could do it manually and build one for $20.00 out of a brass tee.) For ECU control You will need to buy a "Fast Acting Solenoid Valve" at anywhere from $20.00- $80.00 or more just for the solenoid and wire it in to the ECU . Make sure you wire it through a switch to be able to turn it off so you can have a default wastegate setting of 6.0 lbs or whatever the Wastegate spring is set at.....hopefully no more than 7.0 lbs.
Water Injection.......(You can do this with a $25.00 Hobbs switch and and $25.00 electric solenoid and save having to always have the computer along to adjust.) I prefer to have a simple system that is on or off ....no progression that could possibly not work correctly.
Rev Limit........it's already in the computer.
Launch Control/Flat Shift..........not really needed except for cool factor.........could always add later during a winter upgrade......
IAC.......If in a warm climate.....I wouldn't bother.....my buggy will idle after 5 seconds on the throttle and most times I can just reach in and start it without touching anything if it is summer.
Sequential fuel........expensive addon and not needed in my opinion. Extra 02 Sensors at 4 X $199.00 plus mounting them somewhere.
Sequential spark.....extra cost needing 4 single coils vs one 4 post coil plus needing two extra coil drivers.....takes more outputs.
AFR input......needed for dash readout.
EGT input..... not needed.......I did mine because it was only $49.95 on sale at Christmas.....wouldn't do it again. Had to add an input to display on TS dash.

Tunerstudio.......Free version is limited and there is no VE AutoTune. Registered version unlocks Autotune and allows you to also view datalogs.

Megalog Viewer. Free version is limited......Registered version gives more info if you know how to use it.

Laptop.....I bought a Cheap Lenovo for $229.00. It works good......I do have the Bluetooth dongle option with no wires needed to connect to the ECU. It's a nice option and you have to buy serial cable connection too for firmware updates...or you should........
Table Switching/Dual Tables........Not a bad idea if you are running very high boost.......I use it and it doubles your VE and Ignition table size. Not really needed though........A little more complicated to set up........

There are probably more......

Every option added is an extra kit you have to buy and either solder it in or have it installed. So it will probably add about $40.00 per option by the time it's added......maybe more ...maybe less. You can easily double the cost of the MS unit.

[terryly]

Hey Clone bug you only need one 02 sensor to be sequential you need 4 too have sequential with individual trim also you don't need 4 different maps

[Chip Birks]

You can build an ms3. I built an MS2, ran it for a year, then upgraded to the ms3. Then added the 3x card, then the knock board, then the real time clock. I ran it like that for 2 years, then pulled it all out and went MS3-Pro, which was basically about the same as the fully optioned MS3.

Mario sells lots of MS2 setups, they have enough inputs and outputs for most setups, turbo or NA. MS3 with MS3X is really nice if you are not a big DIYer or don't want to pay Mario everytime you want to upgrade something. It has most of the useful circuits already built in, all you have to do is run a wire and turn it on in the software. MS3 is also very nice because of the onboard, computer free datalogging. MS2 has to have a computer plugged in to record any data. Most race tracks won't let you have a laptop in the car while running down the track.
I've only ever dealt with Megasquirt products. But AEM also has some nice options. Their EMS-4 is pretty slick for out 4 cylinder engines. I have an old aem ecu that i planned to use at one point, but never ended up doing so. It might end up on my engine run stand. Or get put on my geo tracker or something.

Fueltech also has some really good options.

Fitech is another that seems to be taking the vw scene by storm lately. Check out my friend Rodney Adams at Rodneyadamsdesigns.com to see some very cool 1600 engine performance parts.

[petew]

MS3 is also very nice because of the onboard, computer free datalogging. MS2 has to have a computer plugged in to record any data. Most race tracks won't let you have a laptop in the car while running down the track.

You can datalog on your phone/tablet using blutooth. Right?

Just looked up your friend...

213whp at 12psi is pretty impressive from a 1600. How in the heck is he doing that? CB is running almost twice that boost to get over 200hp.

[buguy]

Thanks alot guys this help tremendously! Off the top of my head it sounds like MS3 might be best for me. Also in my head building my own sounds like it might be fun to do, but how nice would it be to just plug it in and know it's going to work. One wrong solder by me and I'm hunting for solutions.

And trust me I have considered using a fitech many times but I think by the time I got that and the crank fire, the cost would be a wash and I don't think they have some of the features I want. I put a non power adder fitech on a truck at work and it couldn't be simpler.

213 hp out of a 1600 on 12 psi doesn't right to me. But maybe with E85 and 13:1 compression.... Maybe?