Braided brake lines

[mlrailguy]

I'm thinking about replacing the hard brake lines from my turning brakes back to calipers with braided hose. I'm using CNC unit for turning brakes and the Varga units for rear brakes. Where can I find a kit for this?

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I wouldn't do it and for several reasons. Hard lines from the turning brake to the pivot post, flex line to the post on the trailing arms/axle housing then from there hard lines to the drum slave/caliper cylinder.

The reason is simple: braided lines are not designed for long runs but short runs. They are also braided metal and the continual flexing of the metal can "worry" them to the point where the braiding starts to fail then either fray to stab you or, "possibly", stab into the inner rubber hose. They doo look kool in a show car but that is about in in the long haul.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braided_s ... rake_lines

I don't fully agree with this as I have seen the braiding fray before. The braiding does keep the tube from flexing but then it also makes it hard for the owner to check the condition of the inner brake line by squeezing or flexing.

As I remember the braided line was used in airplane engine during WWII or just after for jet engines. I guess the mechanics who came out of the war and built hotrods remembered and brought the cool look forward.

IMG_1094%20copy[1].jpg

This is a partial picture of what I am doing. Since the turning brake assy is not in place yet here the hard line to each side's brakes are going through the rear cross piece but not bent to shape to connect to the missing cylinders. The hard line going from the end of the flex line to the caliper has not been done as I am not sure if I am going to use a 90° fitting or bend the hard line directly into the caliper.

Also, just for giggles, I put a sending unit for the brake lights on each of the brake lines coming in from the turning brake cylinders. This way you wire the ground from each sender to the brake light; this way when you use the turning brake the brake light for that side comes on. If you use the foot brake then both lights come on. The same if you pull both handles on the turning brakes to lock the diff, both lights come on. Silly maybe but it does work... assuming people following understand what they are seeing .

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

There is one thing I forgot to mention: without going into a lot of detail lay your air-hose out on the floor then, when you connect your hose up to your compressor, the hose will jump as it fills with air; a similar thing happens with the brake lines when they pressure up. Brake lines, unless you have resigual pressure relief valves is low pressure until the pressure is applied by foot or by pulling a handle

While I am sure the hard lines jump a smidgeon (although you probably can't see it unless the line is not tied down which was true on my blue buggy when I got it. It had one of those inline brake valves which are notorious for either locking up perminately or releasing line pressure causing the brakes to stop working. Don't use them as they are not DOT legal and just plan not a good idea) the soft lines will jump more the longer they are as the pressure builds. This means that when you "goose the Moose" in a panic situation the brake line pressure takes a tad longer to come up and fully energize the brakes themselves. You can often tell this by pedal travel and/or feel like a soft or spongy pedal.

While it doesn't seem like a lot... it can be in certain situations.

Lee

[mlrailguy]

OK, sounds good to me. When my hub broke, it snapped off my caliper and ruined the brake line. I was thinking the flex line would be quick easy fix ( and look cool ). To NAPA I go for new hard brake line.

[Leatherneck]

I would run hard line to the back then stainless braided from beam to arm. You want some flex to move with the arm otherwise it will create stress, something has to move.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

As I said, I am not what you would call a big fan of SS braided hose.

frayed SS hose 1.jpg

This is one example of fraying but most of the ones I have seen are frayed at the join to the fitting at one or both ends. If you have ever had the fine experiences of not noticing the fraying then grabbing for the fitting and got a quick feel to the problem you'd quickly know why. Again they are hard to test for softness of the inside material or visually check for condition.

This is not to say they are not good as there are definite reasons for using them... especially in some makes of cars; but with the constant working they get as a pivot piece in the braking system, especially off-road, it is my opinion that there are better materials to use.

http://anfittingguide.com/install-braid ... -fittings/

One of many examples plus there are "how to" videos.

Lee

My opinions are worth quite a bit less than you paid for them.

[mlrailguy]

Already had hard line to beam, then rubber. Went with hard line on the arm. Now if I could just get them to bleed out. CNC's instructions don't seem to work well.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

The old two person method works best but sometimes you can get started gravity bleeding depending on how the setup is. If your turning brakes are at the same level as the MC and CNCs are at then you can open up the bleeding screw and let gravity get the work done. You just have to keep the MC full at all times. If, like mine is, the turning brakes are higher than the MC or the CNCs are then you probably need to go with a buddy's or spousal unit's help.

This came from https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general ... rakes.html "Its easy. Brake pedal hold, cutting brake lever hold, crack open line, close line, release cutting brake, release foot brake, repeat."

[dustymojave]

"This came from https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general ... rakes.html "Its easy. Brake pedal hold, cutting brake lever hold, crack open line, close line, release cutting brake, release foot brake, repeat." "

That's the method I've always used for steering brake systems. Has always worked for me. Last time was a couple of months ago on a Jeep with steering brakes on the front( ...I know it sounds strange, but the front has to be an open diff in order to steer, and at low crawl speed, you can use the steering brake to lock or even drag one wheel to apply power to the wheel that has traction...but be careful trying this at home kids, this is a highly trained professional crew ).

[Ol'fogasaurus]

There is another version of bleeding I have used. I don't remember who told me about it as it was a long time ago but it has helped several times.

Bleed the normal two person method then, when the turning brake still feels soft but the pedal hard try to bleed via pedal:

Keeping the pedal on the floor then pull a/the handle to full application then, holding turning brake handle at full pull, pump the foot brake causing the handle to pump up to full open position. Repeat for the other handle/handle position. This way has worked in stubborn turning brake handle being soft conditions.

Lee

[ninelives17]

http://toplineparts.com/vw-rear-suspens ... -0206.html

[ninelives17]

Nice set of braided lines for IRS beetles, replaces rubber and hard line from torsion tube back and even uses factory spring clip to attach to the arm. Uses a banjo bolt for disc brake applications.