Tierods (tapping)

Offroad VW based vehicles have problems/insights all their own. Not to mention the knowledge gained in VW durability.

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mlrailguy
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Tierods (tapping)

Post by mlrailguy » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:27 am

Need to construct some new tierods for center steering. Plan on re-using VW ends. What taps do I need to get?

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Tierods (tapping)

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:19 pm

mlrailguy wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:27 am
Need to construct some new tierods for center steering. Plan on re-using VW ends. What taps do I need to get?
I'm not sure of the thread count on stock tie-rods (I get two different answers on how I do the search) but you will need two of the long tie-rods, two taps (one right hand thread and the other left hand thread) unless you only cut an existing tie-rod from only one end but then you better be careful what end you cut of you only have one tap :wink: .

mlrailguy
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Re: Tierods (tapping)

Post by mlrailguy » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:09 pm

I didn't have much luck on the search either. I recall 14mm x 1.25 from somewhere, but hate to go buy the wrong one.

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Tierods (tapping)

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:03 pm

Just a thought:

Since you are going to have to do the mods to used equiptment why not just grab some 1' OD tubing with a 3/16 wall thickness then right and left had tap it to allow Ford 3/4 ton pickup Econoline tie-rod ends (per Baja Bugs and Buggies page 47). I think Cornbinders (Internationals) also have a useful tie-rod end too.

The idea of 4130 chrome-moly steel or 2024 T3 are also stated but I would not be real comfortable with that AL myself. I designed to the 2024 spec too many times but then I was starting with -0 then heat treating afterwards which makes a big difference in strength.
Lee

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cbeck
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Re: Tierods (tapping)

Post by cbeck » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:31 pm

I told my self if I ever needed tie rods again, I would buy the proper bungs and make em myself.

mlrailguy
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Re: Tierods (tapping)

Post by mlrailguy » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:41 pm

Wouldn't the tubing be weak at bungs after welding? Have decided against Chrmo as I have no way to heat treat it.

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Tierods (tapping)

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:14 pm

I'm not sure what you mean by "buying bungs". Taking the tube, at finished length, then threading them is what I think Jeff Hibbard was talking about or maybe I didn't read it correctly... which is possible. The chrome-moly finished length assemblies may already be available.

Lanner
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Re: Tierods (tapping)

Post by Lanner » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:22 pm

Stock are m14x1.5, RH and LH. Just cut to length and tap the thread. Id recommend using thr RH ones because tap easier and cheaper to source.

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Tierods (tapping)

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:50 pm

Lanner wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:22 pm
Stock are m14x1.5, RH and LH. Just cut to length and tap the thread. Id recommend using thr RH ones because tap easier and cheaper to source.
Thanks for the thread count Lanner. You are right about cutting new RH threads being the easier of the two directions. He just has to be careful on which ends he grabs to be whacked off :twisted: .

I did mention cutting and rethreading stock tie-rods but then you have no back-up in case you change your mind.

Also, after breaking two steering boxes within an hour off-roading I still recommend going stronger than using stock components but the option is his.

cbeck
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Re: Tierods (tapping)

Post by cbeck » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:26 am

Empi and others sell bungs already threaded for at least the ford tie rod threads. Cut the proper size tubing to length and insert bungs and weld. Cheaper than what I did. Al tie rods for +6 beam, shortened 1/2" each, drilled and taped deeper on the rht side only.

mlrailguy
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Re: Tierods (tapping)

Post by mlrailguy » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:04 am

I see a lot of stuff for the international and ford ends, but, then I have to have special reams to make them fit the vw arms.

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Re: Tierods (tapping)

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:33 am

I must have been tired last night (too much doing nothing I think) but I didn't know about the premade "bungs". Not a big a fan of welding on steering components though; I'm not the best welder in the world plus I've seen too many of them fail without any help :wink: .

If you are still going to use the stock steering box then, if I understand it correctly, the Pittman arm has to be modified to correct the driver's side for proper alignment tie-rod to spindle/steering alignment. I did a couple of searches trying to find something on it here and on the web but thanks to Photobucket most of that visual information is now gone.

mlrailguy
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Re: Tierods (tapping)

Post by mlrailguy » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:04 am

I've had my box in the center for a couple years now, maybe that's why I have had trouble getting alignment good. It has been close to where it seems to steer just fine, but a lot of times, if hitting the bottom of the hill at an angle, the right wheel would just fold back and off I go into the weeds.
As far as the bungs, I find nothing for VW.
I have 3/4" tube with 1/8" wall, which I had planned on tapping, using jam nuts to keep it tight. No welds, no clamps.
I see where Appletree has Chromoly units with VW on the inner and International on the outers. I would be fine with that, if I didn't have to ream out steering arm to fit the international ends. I like keeping things stock, so I can just grab another one when it brakes

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TimS
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Re: Tierods (tapping)

Post by TimS » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:07 am

Just cut the stock vw rods and sleeve and plug weld to length. Quick, easy, customizable, replaceable, cheap, and stronger than stock tie rod ends. You can get new rods with ends for $20 each from Dan's. The sleeve material is dirt cheap at a steel supplier.

Unless there is a different goal that I'm not seeing.
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mlrailguy
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Re: Tierods (tapping)

Post by mlrailguy » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:41 am

Pretty much what I have done in the past. This time I cut some new pieces of 3/4" tubing with 1/8" wall and will be threading the ends.
My other rods were too short, I found, and the rods were barely threaded in half inch or so. It bent nearly 70' right at the slit for clamps.

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