Lets talk about off-road seats; an open conversation.

Offroad VW based vehicles have problems/insights all their own. Not to mention the knowledge gained in VW durability.

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Ol'fogasaurus
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Lets talk about off-road seats; an open conversation.

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:55 pm

This is a problem that I am in the process of dealing with myself. What brought this up to the forefront is CWBs hurting himself (http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... start=2115) on a bad, hard landing.
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These are what I call my "big butt" poly seats. I had been thinking, quite seriously, about going to suspension seats but after CWB's accident where he landing hard and damaged himself I now have second thoughts about the suspension seats.

On the big butt seats I was planning on gluing foam on the seat's bottom, something else on the back then another type of foam on the bolsters then sliding the cover over the seats which takes a lot of compression the foam as you slide the covers over and down. I have seen this method used on some of the "how to" shows but the other things is the thickness, type of the foam and what, if anything else that needs to be looked into.... or am I off base on this.

A couple quick bits of information but I still have to find the right one for doing the foam bit.

Types of foam: http://www.foambymail.com/foam-types-fo ... hions.html

Installing foam on standard seats: https://www.leatherseats.com/leathersea ... tructions/

Lee
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bikesndbugs
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Re: Lets talk about off-road seats; an open conversation.

Post by bikesndbugs » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:07 pm

I personally feel safer with a metal framed seat. Just a thing against buckling. I feel less safe in a plastic seat. As in a hard impact the plastic I would think would bend more

The suspension seats feel nice also. But a padded poly seatbwould also.

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chuckput
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Re: Lets talk about off-road seats; an open conversation.

Post by chuckput » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:51 pm

This topic has been discussed at length over on race-desert especially regarding racing seats.
https://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threa ... ats.58050/

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Lets talk about off-road seats; an open conversation.

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:25 pm

chuckput wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:51 pm
This topic has been discussed at length over on race-desert especially regarding racing seats.
https://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threa ... ats.58050/
Thanks chuckput. I have only read the first and last page of the string you supplied but I will get through it all in a day or two.

After I finished reading it I might re-name the subject as I was meant to be more towards what can be done to the poly seats to make them safer and not as hard on the rear end. My blue buggy had '69 Camero seats in it when I got it; soft but sat high and not a good fit. I bought some GEO Storm seats, narrower and more comfortable but I chose not to use them. They are now in wheels and used for gatherings.

Again, I need to read all chuckput posted before I go much farther.

Thanks, Lee

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Lets talk about off-road seats; an open conversation.

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:34 pm

chuckput wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:51 pm
This topic has been discussed at length over on race-desert especially regarding racing seats.
https://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threa ... ats.58050/
Thanks chuckput. I have only read the first and last page of the string you supplied but I will get through it all in a day or two.

After I finished reading it I might re-name the subject as I was meant to be more towards what can be done to the poly seats to make them safer and not as hard on the rear end. My blue buggy had '69 Camero seats in it when I got it; soft but sat high and not a good fit. I bought some GEO Storm seats, narrower and more comfortable but I chose not to use them. They are now in wheels and used for gatherings.

Again, I need to read all chuckput posted before I go much farther (now up to age 7 of the 17 page string).

I should add that after having a dune crest collapse on me several years ago and dropped almost straight down about 15 to 20 feet I had a stiff back for several months after the suspension collapsed (to the stops in the rear and to the shocks in the BJ front) on me; I was using the Poly seats at the time. It was the main reason I made several big changes to my blue buggy suspension and body lift wise. I am now at the point of fixing the seating problem on both my blue and black buggies.

Thanks, Lee

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Re: Lets talk about off-road seats; an open conversation.

Post by Leatherneck » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:54 pm

I have had the poly seats with with padding and suspension seats. I will take the Suspension seats any day.
I am no doctor but I did stay at a Holiday Inn one time, CWB had just finished driving at Ocotillio wells fighting a bunch of whoops and those stinking UTV whoops from hell. That is some tough riding and probably did his back no good then a heavy hit while he was out playing later was the uh straw that hurt his back so to speak.

Those whoops were brutal. There wasn't any getting on top or going slow, it all sucked.

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Re: Lets talk about off-road seats; an open conversation.

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:08 pm

Were the whoops so widely spaced that you couldn't ride just the tops of them? You do need to get some speed up to do it though.

Passenger car seats are soft and comfortable when sitting still and... you can bottom them out. Most of them aren't real good about holding you centered on the seat also. Something I would not do again would be to use most passenger car seats.
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My old seats on wheels and posts. I even have a bench seat that the great grand kids like to snooze on during the day.
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CentralWAbaja
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Re: Lets talk about off-road seats; an open conversation.

Post by CentralWAbaja » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:22 pm

My back was "tired" after a couple hundred miles in Ocotillo Wells but the hit I took in the dunes was an approximate 50mph drop almost instantly. Probably went from 70 to 20 in a blink of am eye. My neck took no force and I was wearing my helmet. Passenger was also wearing one and said no real neck strain. So it was more of a pop the nose and slammed the bottom of the car into the face of the 3ft razorback kinda impact.

I have been talking about seats for a while. And I have been reading and researching seats since almost the beginning of my build. I do not have strong feelings about seat style yet even after breaking my back. I do feel that the belts were not right for me and maybe my seat failed also. I sat in every seat at Tech and Contingincy for the Mint400 back in March but did not find anything I liked at all. I do feel like my seats let me move more then I am comfortable with which is why I had already been looking at seats for a while. Once I am able to work on the car I will pull my seat to see what I find.
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Lets talk about off-road seats; an open conversation.

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:29 pm

I have heard of collars being use in similar riding situations. Not sure if they are good or not.

Doesn't sound like you were at Winchester Bay doing 50 mph. Haven't seen a whoop that big down where we ride. :lol:

If I can find the information I am looking for I think I am still hooked on the big butt seat that has been small-I-fied with the right kind of foam... but my options are still open to other setups.

The other part of the mix that I am still concerned about is the idiots out on the dunes. I know of two people who's front ends of their rails looked a bit worse than Leather's after being hit by quads going fast where they shouldn't (2 direction narrow trails meandering through the trees).

The driver's in the SXS that can go so fast and weigh much more than a quad, probably more than even a rail or buggy. Getting smacked by one of those would be part of the seat mix in my opinion. One of the reasons I want to be kind of locked into the seat and not thrown around so much even with a properly mounted 5-point harness.

Coming and going from the dunes I couldn't believe how many SXSs were being trailered in or going home when we were.

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CentralWAbaja
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Re: Lets talk about off-road seats; an open conversation.

Post by CentralWAbaja » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:22 am

Ol'fogasaurus wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:29 pm

Doesn't sound like you were at Winchester Bay doing 50 mph. Haven't seen a whoop that big down where we ride. :lol:
These passes are at about 45-50mph (hard to tell as the GPS was bouncing speed readings) as we were backing it down next to camp. You can hear the RPM's drop from what they were off in the distance, but kinda shows what we were playing on. Wind blew pretty good on Friday so they were sharpened up on Sat when I had my dealio

https://youtu.be/PFElOqiUPzs

https://youtu.be/iKf9maMCxms

As for the hardpack whoops at Ocotillo the only thing I can compare it to is the single track dirt bike stuff around me nothing in the sand compares. There is a 6 or 7 mile stretch of 2-3ft whoops that really you need to be doing about 65mph to get on top of or they beat the living daylights out of you just like Leatherneck said. There are no sand whoops that compare to these hardpack ones. The stuff near you Lee at the Houser area is close in size but the sand is so much softer that even those are smooth in comparison.
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Lets talk about off-road seats; an open conversation.

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:13 pm

While I haven't ridden the imperial dunes I have been there. The sand is way different (bigger and longer; e/g/. coarser, as I remember) than the tiny close packed (especially when wet) and heavier sand we ride up here. The sand here is material ground up in the ocean, then cast on the beach to be blown inland by the wind (except where the "Greenies" planted the European Beach Grass back in the late 80s or early 90s of course. They copied it from the rail roads who used it to keep the sand from covering the tracks... they were down wind of course which keep the grass off the dunes). I also saw some of the off-road areas on the same trip down so I do understand the differences in "texture".

If you remember, the speed limit on the dunes themselves is 55 mph but in the southern dune area those speeds are not safely obtainable either except for the few places marked for drag racing or things like that. The speed limit is 25 mph on the beach as it us part of the nat'l highway system. I just checked and the beach speed limits (where you can access them0 is 25 mph. It is the same in WA. Stumbled on this looking things up: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ss ... ne_pl.html.

I am not sure what direction you now planning on taking seat wise. I am still thinking hard on using the poly seats I have but with foam added. A long time ago I did sit in a seat which was done the way I am currently thinking but still, it was a long time ago. I do remember after insinuating myself in it, then being told to wiggle my "fanny" some which I did, then I sunk in deeper; it then was kind like being wedged into the seat and surrounded by the foam. I could still move my legs and arms pretty freely but my torso was pretty much imbedded in place.

It almost felt like I didn't need a harness, which is ridicules of course, but that was the feeling I remember. The feeling was very close to those sitting in those expensive racing seats that are designed to do almost the same thing. The only thing missing was the side helmet bit that, in case of a side hit, kept your head from being knocked side to side. The helmet thing I felt was kind of bad since when driving in the sand you need to keep your head swiveling (defensive driving) to avoid those who aren't paying attention to what is going on which is getting worse all the time.
Lee

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bikesndbugs
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Re: Lets talk about off-road seats; an open conversation.

Post by bikesndbugs » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:03 pm

the whoops out here ocotillo wells, plaster city and ocotillo are extremely rough. i wont even get near them in my car. even some of the smaller ones are still crazy rough and i have to go like 10mph to not beat myself to death. the anza boreggo are seems to be a little bit smother as it is less traveled by high power things.

Im happy to have upgraded to suspension they are alot better than the stock ones i feel so much safer now.
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