Newbie - Intro/Build Post

Offroad VW based vehicles have problems/insights all their own. Not to mention the knowledge gained in VW durability.

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dustymojave
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Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal

Re: Newbie - Intro/Build Post

Post by dustymojave » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:40 pm

Kugel8x57 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:51 pm
Thanks Dusty! I appreciate your reply and answer to my 4-Lug wheel question.
You're welcome.
Kugel8x57 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:51 pm
BTW, were you able to download and view the 3D pdf?
Yes, and rotate it.
Kugel8x57 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:51 pm
Do you happen to know the horizontal offset angle of the stock VW irs trailing arm?
If you mean the pivot angle of the trailing arm relative to the torsion bar, IIRC 9°.
Kugel8x57 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:51 pm
Also, is 10" total up/down rear wheel travel (+/- 5") sufficient for mild to medium off-road use? If not what would be your recommendation?
Yup. Swing axle offroad cars are pretty much limited to about 8" of working travel. SCORE Class 9 buggy rules requires swingaxle rear suspension with stock transaxle. SCORE Class 11 requires swingaxle for cars that start out as swingaxle. Such as 1968 or earlier models. Check out YouTube videos of both classes of race cars. You'll find they offroad pretty damned well. Unlimited classes of offroad race cars used swingaxle for decades. In the early days of the Baja 1000, 6" of travel was the norm. My Baja has about 9" of rear travel. It gets driven VERY hard offroad. More travel is nice, but NOT absolutely necessary.

Hot rodders have an old saying that my dad taught me. I've adjusted it slightly based on personal observations.
"Speed costs money, how fast can you afford to go?"

I further modify it based on many decades of offroad experience.
"Wheel travel costs money, how much travel can you afford?"

For $300-600,000 you can have a new trophy truck with about 30" of wheel travel all around.
Richard
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills!, but then...So does OLD AGE!!
A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech Inspection
MDR / MORE / Glen Helen BajaCup Challenge
AKA: MojaveRacer208
'58 Baja with 815K Miles and counting

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Newbie - Intro/Build Post

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:13 pm

... or a sand car for close to the same costs. I think they play with +/- 26" of travel and ~ a 120" wheel base.

Kugel8x57
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Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama :o)

Re: Newbie - Intro/Build Post

Post by Kugel8x57 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:02 am

Hi Guys!

I haven't forgotten about this great forum, and I appreciate all the feedback, thus far.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I am in the process of moving my residence and my office to another state (from AL to GA). Things are pretty hectic around here, right now.

I will get back to this project as soon as possible. Thanks again and talk to ya'll soon!
Go Dirt Pile and God Bless!!

Kugel 8)

Kugel8x57
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:38 pm
Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama :o)

Finally started working on Baja Bug... sort of...

Post by Kugel8x57 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:32 pm

Working on getting the wheels back on the Bug, so I can load it onto a trailer for the move from AL to GA.

So glad that I bagged and tagged all of those parts, 18-19 years ago. Sure would have been a huge PITB, if I had to try and remember, from scratch, what all of those parts are and where they go.

Anyway, as I was cleaning out the Bug and finding all of my parts, I found my four NEW - still NIB from 1998-1999, when I purchased them - Mexican made brake drums. Finding these brought a couple of questions to mind:
1) If my original German made drums can be safely resurfaced, should I use those, instead of the Mexican made drums?
2) Should I install larger than OEM studs and use larger Lug-Nuts, instead of using the original Lug-Bolts? What are the advantages/disadvantages?

I've got the two front wheels back on - sans the backing plates and brakes, because I only need to get it rolling. Doing this reminded me about the need to beef-up the speedometer spindle. Can someone point me to a good How-To video or description. I cannot seem to find one on YouTube. I'm sure I'm just not using the proper search phrase(s), but cannot seem to find it.

I'm putting the wheels back on with the old bearings, just to get it rolling. And whether I use the German or Mexican drums, during the actual build, I will put in new bearings and seals.

That's all for now.
Go Dirt Pile and God Bless!!

Kugel 8)

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Newbie - Intro/Build Post

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:40 pm

The old trick of turning down a bolt to fill the space in the link-pin’s spindle spud from the last I have heard has somewhat fallen out of favor.

If you can find a copy of the book Baja Bugs & Buggies by Jeff Hibbard there is a discussion about this very thing. It starts on page 58 and goes into page 60 with a diagram (with dimensions) of the machined piece that is pressed into the left spindle spud on page 60 (this is a good book to have in your library).

According to the write-up, page 59 in the sections titled “Left-Spindle Fix”, what you will need to start with is a Grade 5 or better yet a grade 8 X 0.50 (1/2”) dia. bolt longer than 6” after the head of the bolt is removed.

“Cut off the head and enough of the shaft to leave 6”. Don’t worry about the threads at the end. Now take the bold and the spindle to someone with a lathe, put the bolt in the lathe with the threaded out and turn it down to 21/64” OD 5 1/8” back from its threaded end. See sketch on page 60.”

According to the book there is/was a place called “The Wright Place” that makes a unit for racing; I tried to look it up but couldn’t find it. Everything on the spindle, link are beefed up for racing.

http://chircoestore.com/combo-racing-spindles.html

This is one example of a replacement spindle with heavier duty spindle spuds.

http://chircoestore.com/combo-racing-spindles-8388.html

This is another option.

It seems to me that at one time there was a spindle spud for the K&L spindle that was heavier (BJ size) or you can get “Combo spindle” (the first URL I posted). These should be easily obtainable but requires different hubs because of the larger dia. Bearings.
Lee

My opinion is worth slightly less than what you paid for it.

Kugel8x57
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Re: Newbie - Intro/Build Post

Post by Kugel8x57 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:00 pm

Thanks Lee!

I actually have the Baja Bugs & Buggies Book. I will take a look.

My project car is a 1974, so it a ball joint front end. However, I am thinking about 3" raised spindles from AirCooled.net:

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/3-1-2-Rais ... j-drum.htm

Any thoughts on the re-machined German brake drums - vs - the new Mexican brake drums?
Also, any thoughts on pressed in studs and Lug-nuts - vs - Lug-bolts?

Thank again!
Go Dirt Pile and God Bless!!

Kugel 8)

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Newbie - Intro/Build Post

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:49 pm

As you know a BJ beam is much different than a link pin beam and the spread between the beams is different. If you can find a front end for a link-pin front beam then I have pictures of how to change that so you could go to the link pin beam which can get you more travel in the front.

As for spindles if you can find a set the Thing (type 181) is a very good way to go. The Thing's spindle spud is set lower which gives you almost 3" of lift but the way the stock VW lower BJs are pressed in you can pull the BJ apart on a heavy hit. The Thing solved the problem by pressing the lower BJs in from the top down so the spindle is shaped differently hence much stronger. The raised 3" units that are out t here still press in the stock way so it is still weak but you do gain the front end lift.

http://www.pacificcustoms.com/ac413100.html

Stock the Beetle BJ front end does not have stops, they use the shocks for that. What you are going to want to do is add hook and pin stops to stop the in-stopped travel from destroying things. I did a BJ beam build a while back but with the Photobucket bit going on the pix are gone. I'm trying to put together some pictures and will post them later if you want.
013.JPG
This shows the difference between a stock BJ spindle on the right and a Thing spindle on the left. The spindles are now difficult to find but are out there; it is the adjuster for the upper BJ that is the most difficult to find as the thing upper BJ is of a different stud diameter and the angle of the hole through the adjuster is different than the stock one is. You can use the stock upper BJ but it isn't quite as strong.

If you want I will try to post more pictures.

You are also going to want to stiffen the shock towers up also. Got pictures of two ways to do it if you want. The same for installing the hook and pins.

Lee
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dustymojave
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Re: Newbie - Intro/Build Post

Post by dustymojave » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:15 pm

Mexican drums are more likely to crack than German drums.

Stock link pin 5-lug drums will fit on Ball joint spindles or on Combo spindles with the correct bearings.

Pressed-in studs make it much easier to change tires. You need to spot-face the inside of the drums for the heads of the studs.

Ball joint spindles have much stouter shanks than link pin spindles and really don't need the speedo cable hole filled. Class 11 stock Bug and Class 9 Challenger buggy racers just put silicon in the hole for the cable to keep dirt and water out.
Richard
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills!, but then...So does OLD AGE!!
A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech Inspection
MDR / MORE / Glen Helen BajaCup Challenge
AKA: MojaveRacer208
'58 Baja with 815K Miles and counting

Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 13096
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:17 am
Location: Just north of Seattle

Re: Newbie - Intro/Build Post

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:55 pm

For some reason I got the impression that he was using a link-pin beam which is why I posted on the structural addition.

I agree with Dusty on not needing to add additional structure to the BJ spindle; I run a stock BJ beam on the sand where it does get worked pretty hard and the spuds have held up.

Lee

Kugel8x57
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Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama :o)

Re: Newbie - Intro/Build Post

Post by Kugel8x57 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:18 am

Thanks again, guys! Great info! I will get the last wheel on her tomorrow and roll her out of the garage. Got to get her loaded onto a trailer and haul her to GA.

Also, I found the receipt from when I purchased the old girl back in 1998. No engine, but had/has transaxle cv's and drive axles. No bumpers and some minor front end damage to the spare tire well from being in a wreck. But, I only paid $50 for her. Can't believe what a great find and deal that was!!

More later, when I get a chance.
Go Dirt Pile and God Bless!!

Kugel 8)

ninelives17
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Location: Alabama

Re: Newbie - Intro/Build Post

Post by ninelives17 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:02 am

Where abouts in Alabama are you? I am also a resident of L.A. Are you near the Dothan area?

Kugel8x57
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Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama :o)

Re: Newbie - Intro/Build Post

Post by Kugel8x57 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:25 pm

ninelives17 wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:02 am
Where abouts in Alabama are you? I am also a resident of L.A. Are you near the Dothan area?
Hi ninelives17!!

Presently near Atmore, AL. Oddly enough, after we complete the move to SOGA, I'll be nearer to Dothan than I am now! :D
Go Dirt Pile and God Bless!!

Kugel 8)

ninelives17
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Location: Alabama

Re: Newbie - Intro/Build Post

Post by ninelives17 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:22 am

When both are finally running i would be willing to make the drive to ride with you. There are not many East coasters on here, particularly in the Southern region.

Kugel8x57
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:38 pm
Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama :o)

Re: Newbie - Intro/Build Post

Post by Kugel8x57 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:50 pm

ninelives17 wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:22 am
When both are finally running i would be willing to make the drive to ride with you. There are not many East coasters on here, particularly in the Southern region.
ninelives17 - please check your private messages. Thanks!
Go Dirt Pile and God Bless!!

Kugel 8)

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