Starter question for an ag application

[cdsloop]

Hello guys. Newbie here. I'm a part-time farmer with a VW powered field sprayer. I was directed here by a friend that sought some advice a couple years ago on a transaxle issue that he had with his sprayer that's identical to mine. The sprayer is a Spra-Coupe 230, and it's powered by a 1.8 liter, naturally aspirated VW engine. From the research that I have done, it's pretty much identical to the 1.8 that they put in the mid to late 80's Fox, Golf, etc. It's coupled to a four speed transaxle with an 081 case. I ran it hot a few weeks ago, and warped the head. I've got that fixed now, and it runs great. My problem is starting. I have figured out that my starter was going out before I had head problems, but now it's shot. We pulled the starter, and had it bench tested, and it tested bad. I'd like to replace it with a good gear reduction starter, and hopefully be done with it. I like the looks of the IMI Performance starters, I just don't know which one to order for my application. I'm going to try to count the teeth on the flywheel tonight, but the starter has a 9 tooth gear on it. It seems that the 081 case is a Type 1, is that correct? Any advice for a newbie on a new starter?

[GDRBORETIRED]

The Transaxle forum would be a better source for your answers.

[Marc]

Actually not many of the denizens here have a lot of experience with the water-pumper VWs, this board is primarily for aircooleds. If they used some type of adapter plate and modified aircooled flywheel (Kennedy Engineered Products is the leader in that field) to graft your engine to an aircooled trans it most likely has a 130-tooth ring gear. That would normally use a ubiquitous VW aircooled starter - note that these are not self-supporting, and CANNOT be bench-tested - they rely upon a bushing in the transaxle case to center the shaft...if you just put power to them with no support, they'll just "pole" to the side and quite likely suffer from the experience. Does yours look similar to this?



I've never heard of an 081 transaxle, but there's a "Rhino" heavy-duty case for aircooled applications that's 081 301 051. It's OEM Brazil and would take a starter intended for a Beetle.

There's a slightly heavier-duty (.8 vs .7HP) non-reduction one available for that type of case if you have a 130-tooth flywheel, it's stock in Beetles with the AutoStick trans, as well as multiple other applications. Unlike the "4-speed" starter it's self-supporting. AutoZone sells their rebuilts for $40 (+$16 core if they won't accept your old one).


My first thought (assuming it has a normal waterpumper starter now) was to try the heavier-duty starters that were used with the diesel engines...but that's a "non-starter" (pun intended) if you have an aircooled trans.


There are gear-reduction starters available for 12V Beetle & pre`76 Bus, and also ones with a different "reach" for the `76-up Buses/Vanagons. I have the former in my trike, they go for ~$250.

[TimS]

Damn, man. That was a good answer. I was confused on the 081 and the water cooled vw stuff.

[bajaherbie]

Dang X 2.... I had all of that typed up and was about to hit the submit button but was beat to the punch..

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

[Piledriver]

Actually, there is a factory 2KW gear reduction starter that will (mostly) bolt on.
Its for a VR6 with an automatic,
On the 9 tooth VR6/automatic starter, one of the mount holes is slightly offset, which makes it incompatible, but 2 minutes with a small rattail file can cure that.

The issue with the waterpumpers is the starter gets cooked under the exhaust manifold, esp if the downpipe passes directly by it per the stock setups.

The starter should have a heat shield of some sort over it.

...But, the autostick one will likely work perfect for your app, and is a LOT cheaper/more common.
(Cheap and Common are not at all insults in this context)

[sideshow]

Rather than wild ass guesses on what a farm ag takes for as starter, how about a picture?

[Piledriver]

Rather than wild ass guesses on what a farm ag takes for as starter, how about a picture?

You're no fun.
Marc probably nailed the transmission, but a photo or esp. part# of the existing starter would be helpful.

[cdsloop]

Thanks for the replies, guys. We had some friends over for dinner last night, and I wasn't able to get back to check on things. The transaxle in our machine is the one that Marc posted the picture of. The starter is similar to what he pictured, but uses a three bolt mount. I called IMI Performance yesterday, and got some technical advice from them. He told me to do some measuring, and count the teeth on the flywheel. The flywheel has 132 teeth, (we counted it twice) which seems to be an oddball number. The measurement from the face of the mount to the outer edge of the pinion (with it extended/thrown out) is just barely over an inch. IMI told me this measurement should be either 1.3" or 1.732". This doesn't match up either. The starter is protected by a heat shield. And yes, this is a water cooled engine, I forgot to put that in the original post. Here's a few pics, maybe this will clear things up. Thanks again for the help.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I did a quick search on that part number and got several hits: Golf, Audi, Jetta, Stihl, Audi TT all seem to use that starter.

Lee

[Marc]

It looks like they use the same starter for gas & diesel applications so there's no stock upgrade. I couldn't find a gear-reduction starter to replace it either.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Starter-Mel ... S6&vxp=mtr

Here's a cross-reference for P/Ns of Lucas, Lester, Valeo, etc. equivalents if you want to continue searching for a gear-reduction replacement ("PMGR" - industry term for Permanent Magnet, Gear Reduction) using other P/Ns - I've tried a few but haven't come up with anything but OEM-style direct drives ("DD")

Item #22 on this spreadsheet: http://www.jtstarter.com/login/dow/dow/ ... %20No..xls

[Piledriver]

It may be a gear reduction starter, Bosch uses a very compact planetary setup.
(Like the SR15X, but that's for T1/T3 manuals, is PMGR)
The aluminum part is plenty long enough.

[Marc]

SR15X, SR17X, and every manufacturer's version of the 0 001 206 711/712 I could find are all direct-drive.

[Piledriver]

SR15X is planetary gear reduction with permanent magnets, as is the VR6 Jetta starter I'm currently running.
I have an SR15X with a dead brush package.
Its non-obvious unless you take it apaht, but the motor dia is smaller.

[Marc]

SR15X is planetary gear reduction with permanent magnets, as is the VR6 Jetta starter I'm currently running.
I have an SR15X with a dead brush package.
Its non-obvious unless you take it apaht, but the motor dia is smaller.

On the left: Classic SR15X, based upon 311 911 023B, etc. OEM.
On the right: A PMGR now being sold under the SR15X P/N
....until now, I hadn't encountered the PMGR version - guess the supply of old-style cores has dried up.