It's Back, It's back, after almost 50 years the Tow'd is ...

Offroad VW based vehicles have problems/insights all their own. Not to mention the knowledge gained in VW durability.

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dustymojave
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Re: It's Back, It's back, after almost 50 years the Tow'd is

Post by dustymojave » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:54 am

Hmmm.....

You must have been writing that answer as I posted the question!

I like the double a-arm. The Mendie a-arm kit is a sorta compromise on-road design. I'm not too sure it would be real good for pavement go-fast. The bulkhead mounting is VERY heavy. And are the sway bars available in other thicknesses? No. The "zero-scrub" spindles are essentially lowered ball joint Bug spindles. And in their pics the front suspensions show a fair amount of scrub. I'm really not too sure what they mean by the name. A little bit of scrub is a good thing. The steering is highly unpredictable without some. The kit appears to limit brake choices to what fits on Ball Joint Bug / Ghia spindles. And those spindles are VERY short in height. What sort of roll center do they present? Not real good.

The McPherson strut idea is a fine one for handling and simplicity, until you consider upper mounts sticking out of the sides of the Tow'd nose. Brake choices are rather better than with VW spindles until you step up to combo spindle stubs.
Richard
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Piledriver
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Re: It's Back, It's back, after almost 50 years the Tow'd is

Post by Piledriver » Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:10 am

dustymojave wrote:Hmmm.....

You must have been writing that answer as I posted the question!
No, I have just spent a lot of time (previously) thinking about it ...and eyeballing (and simulating) what is needed.

To implement it on a from scratch buggy frame would border on trivial... at least as trivial as a double wishbone front suspension can be. You could make the shocks lay down flat (bellcrank) and not have anything sticking up at all if so desired.

The 911 spindles/bearings are quite beefy, and not drilled for a speedo...
I hear they have even been used for rally work... (Paris>Dakar etc)
(914 not as beefy, but cheaper, also no speedo drilling)

Of course anything that fits a pre-1990 911 brake wise will fit just fine.
There are a few options. Some wheels out there, too.

I suspect you could even make it truly off-road worthy if so desired.

A TOW'D worthy front suspension IMHO.
With sticky rubber, the 928 rear, a turbo WRX mill and trans and a stiff frame/cage (probably stretch the wheelbase a bit for stability) you could probably run away from more than a few $$$$$$ cars on the track, or even off the road entirely.
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dustymojave
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Re: It's Back, It's back, after almost 50 years the Tow'd is

Post by dustymojave » Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:34 am

Piledriver wrote: You could make the shocks lay down flat (bellcrank) and not have anything sticking up at all if so desired.
Not gonna work real well for a McPherson Strut suspension like an early 911 or a 914. :twisted:
Might be OK with late 911 double a-arm tho.

Yeah the Porsche spindles are stout.
Richard
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Speed Kills!, but then...So does OLD AGE!!
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Re: It's Back, It's back, after almost 50 years the Tow'd is

Post by Piledriver » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:40 am

dustymojave wrote:
Piledriver wrote: You could make the shocks lay down flat (bellcrank) and not have anything sticking up at all if so desired.
Not gonna work real well for a McPherson Strut suspension like an early 911 or a 914. :twisted:
Might be OK with late 911 double a-arm tho.

Yeah the Porsche spindles are stout.
I don't think you understood the idea completely.
I'm talking about sawing the strut tubes off at the top of the spindles and adding ball joint mounts to attach an upper a-arm.
They will not be "struts" anymore. Just spindles, with an existing height adjustable torsion bar and lower A-arm setup if so desired.

If you gusseted the a-arm you could reverse the whole setup so it doesn't stick out the front 2 feet.
The L&R height adjusters then sit up front, easy to get at.

...really beefy spindles one can hang just about any brake setup you can afford, and some most cannot.
(balljoint could be be offset inwards or backwards some if desired)
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Re: It's Back, It's back, after almost 50 years the Tow'd is

Post by dustymojave » Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:44 am

OK...NOW you're talking some sense. The trailing links could attach to the lower side rail... I can see it.
Richard
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Iguana
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Re: It's Back, It's back, after almost 50 years the Tow'd is

Post by Iguana » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:15 am

Quick to build to lol

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Re: It's Back, It's back, after almost 50 years the Tow'd is

Post by mkparker » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:15 am

I sure like some Tow'ds!

I built this one waay back in the day!

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Re: It's Back, It's back, after almost 50 years the Tow'd is

Post by Getrdone » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:43 pm

Is that done Brad?

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Re: It's Back, It's back, after almost 50 years the Tow'd is

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:07 pm

From Iguana's first posts:

"... Unlike the other Kits in the Meyers Manx line up the Tow’d is aimed firmly at the DIY Builder with the skills and desire to build an effective On and Off-Road Buggy with the factory support of Meyers Manx as well as the unmistakable lines and history of the Meyers Tow’d.

The initial offering will be the iconic Meyers Tow’d Tub complete with Meyers Manx Build Plate, Decals and Build Instructions. Over the following months additional kit items will be released with the culmination of a complete line up of all Meyers Tow’d Parts available for purchase by Jan 1 2015.

In order to keep costs and supply times down the Meyers Tow’d will be available in Primer Gel Coat Only and will require sanding and painting prior to assembly if you are that way inclined.

With the starting kit being just $1200 for the Tub, Hood, Decals, Build Plate and Instructions I thought it was a great way to get another piece of history."

Then:

"... At this stage the plan is to have the entire kit available by 1 Jan 2015 and you will be able to pick the pieces that you want or don't want. This will allow people to put their own touches on it or buy the off the shelf offering.

There will also be build plans available if people want to do it all them selves.

The market for the kit is DIY so they will be doing everything they can to make it appeal to people who really want to do as much as they can but know that if they get stuck then help is an email away and if it gets real hard the UPS guy can just deliver the part."

After reading all the fancy-dancy options others might have plans for: are they going to allow old-tyme build-ups too?

I didn't see the front cycle fenders nor rear fenders May be a bit wider for Razorbacks or something like that. I would be inclined tp get a cage that would allow me to build a short wheelbase/short travel maybe K&L up to 10" and IRS with travel up to ~10" with ~30" dia. tires also for the sand or off-road. It would be fun to accommodate something like that that could easily be a dual purpose rig. Nothing fancy like having twenty or thirty shocks per side, just a nice handling toy for trails and sand use and maybe provisions for a soft top and side curtains.

Just getting my two-bits in on this. :wink:

Lee

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Big Bus
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Re: It's Back, It's back, after almost 50 years the Tow'd is

Post by Big Bus » Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:28 pm

In the comming months i'll have here in Australia , moulds for wide Towdster guards / fenders .
The rears may or may not suit all cars as the arches have also been moved back to suit 3 X 3 arms
And the front's , well lets just say they are big .
Yes these fenders arn't for everyone and are only really going to fit a pretty serious car like mine , as i said you will need to be running a minimum of 3 x 3 arms on the rear and a pretty wide front end , ie my car is 6'3" outside of rear tyre to outside of rear tyre and 6'2" in the front .
Just thought i'dd put them out there as yes the original guards are all good if your running cheese cutters but thats it

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: It's Back, It's back, after almost 50 years the Tow'd is

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:42 pm

With stock arms and 15 X 15 rims and 1300+ tires I am 83" wide (I run 15 X 12 now and it works a lot better). I think your setup is going to be too wide for where I ride. Rails with 3 X 3 arms are used in some of the trails I ride on but not usually with the + tires w/o getting into the brush and trees on each side. :wink: Also, at 83" I have to take the rear tires off to load it onto my trailer. With the narrower rims I can make it on OK.

Your Tow's is very similar to what I have in mind, just not quite as wide and probably power it with a milder engine. Not sure if I would go to a bus transaxle again either as the gearing is off just enough and can be expensive to change.

Lee

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Re: It's Back, It's back, after almost 50 years the Tow'd is

Post by Piledriver » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:48 pm

Texas has apparently recently changed their "kit car/motorcycle" registration requirements, so it may require the frame at least to be made by a "registered vehicle manufacturer". The plate might be enough... not enough info, but it's good to know the parts will be available.

I'm actually considering the stretched road going version (after I get a couple of other projects out of the way)
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Re: It's Back, It's back, after almost 50 years the Tow'd is

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:18 am

WA I think might now be similar. There have been a lot of changes going on by special interest groups so what I knew is not necessarily be true anymore. I just looked this up and I think there are a lot of questions that still needs to be answered by anyone trying to do this: http://www.wsp.wa.gov/traveler/vinfaq.htm

http://www.wsp.wa.gov/traveler/vinfaq.htm I just ran into this also: as it starts by saying: "A new law changed how ...". I know you have to account for everything such as the torsion assembly and present the title of the vehicle it came from and the number plate (off the tunnel a VW anyway) so the car can be listed as destroyed from what I understand.

Lee

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Re: It's Back, It's back, after almost 50 years the Tow'd is

Post by Piledriver » Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:54 am

A little more reading indicates that the TOW'd might be in the clear with only the body and the build plate.
Perfhaps it could have the year of design/release on the plate, as well.

Apparently the Tx DMV released an interpretation guide document for the responsible county clerks that removed most of the worst stupid bits, and put it back essentially where it was before, to a point. It has to be certified bt an ASE Master Mechanic, which are not terribly hard to find, but that cert might cost you, and you need a std safety inspection, which is very basic/sane.
The Meyers Manx etc is actually used as one of the examples of what is accepted.

Basically if you have a rail with a T1 tunnel and even as much as the VIN plate still attached, you have a vehicle of that year.
(They want to see documentation, no surprise)

Also interesting to see that SEMA lobbying may have been the CAUSE of the issue... Taking care of their own while throwing everyone else under the bus. (anything that is even a loose "replica" of anything made before 1948 is ~exempt)

Registering a Locost might prove problematic, unless you can say it is a "replica' of something pre-1949...
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Re: It's Back, It's back, after almost 50 years the Tow'd is

Post by Big Bus » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:57 am

My front fender plugs in fabrication and yes they are somewhat higher than standard and even with my 2 1/4" x 1" trailing arms and 195 / 80 / 15 tyres i have NO tyre contact with the guard in the full 12" cycle of the front suspension including fully turned in .

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