Noted but I will probably forget (I'm old and getting older ).
The point about running RC hardness tests is interesting. With all the different spiking of the bolt that may have been done plus the what the material was originally, the age of the material and temper it was and is, it would be interesting too what has happened to it.
Interesting conversation anyway.
Lee
Diagonal arm pivot bolt for I.R.S.
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Re: Diagonal arm pivot bolt for I.R.S.
No worries,
I too forget more every day.
The worst part is standing there looking at something that I have done many many times, and realizing that it was so far in the past, I no longer remember the sequences.
Fortunately/unfortunately, when I removed it, it appeared that the original, factory, deformation was the only one present. I would be more interested in the work hardening of the flange over the decades, especially the difference between a street driven car, and a fairly hard used Baja.
I too forget more every day.
The worst part is standing there looking at something that I have done many many times, and realizing that it was so far in the past, I no longer remember the sequences.
Fortunately/unfortunately, when I removed it, it appeared that the original, factory, deformation was the only one present. I would be more interested in the work hardening of the flange over the decades, especially the difference between a street driven car, and a fairly hard used Baja.
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Re: Diagonal arm pivot bolt for I.R.S.
On of the reasons things like this are hard to address is a lot of the individual cars history is missing and so is the discussions of the designers had with each other over things like this. It is hard to convert German thinking into American thinking. Got to see that happen a couple of times... live. Add to that questions don't always contain all the facts needed on what is being asked.
It's funny, I am having problems getting certain words while other areas have gotten better. After a potentially very bad incident that happened back in the early 60's my ability with names, faces and other related things about them took a dump. I was also, at one time, required to know 3600 people and be aware of their needs. Didn't happen of course!
Lee
My opinion is worth slightly or a lot less than you paid for it.
It's funny, I am having problems getting certain words while other areas have gotten better. After a potentially very bad incident that happened back in the early 60's my ability with names, faces and other related things about them took a dump. I was also, at one time, required to know 3600 people and be aware of their needs. Didn't happen of course!
Lee
My opinion is worth slightly or a lot less than you paid for it.
- dustymojave
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- Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:08 pm
Re: Diagonal arm pivot bolt for I.R.S.
I have figured out that the torsional force on the bolt in question can be rather substantial. I'm not feeling real confident of .025 stainless safety wire in that application. I've seen a holder made of the head of a bolt with a 17mmm hex welded to a piece of 1/8" bar stock and bolted to a tab welded to the torsion housing tube...and the bar stock broken clean off and the bolt lost. I've seen 5/16" Gr 5 bolts at the bar/tab connection broken. Then again, I've seen a number of cars with no method of bolt retention at all that never lost a bolt in many years of use.
I like to lube the inside of the bushing and the outside of the sleeve with spray graphite before assembly. Then red Loc-Tite on the clean threads.
Then the 3/16 cotter pin or 1/4" bolt across the end of a tube or a pair of tabs welded on. One customer had used 1/4" stovebolts in his. One of the IRS pivot bolts had worked against the screw and worn 3/4 of the way through. It was still holding. But would not have for much longer.
I like to lube the inside of the bushing and the outside of the sleeve with spray graphite before assembly. Then red Loc-Tite on the clean threads.
Then the 3/16 cotter pin or 1/4" bolt across the end of a tube or a pair of tabs welded on. One customer had used 1/4" stovebolts in his. One of the IRS pivot bolts had worked against the screw and worn 3/4 of the way through. It was still holding. But would not have for much longer.
Richard
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
Tech Inspection: SCCA / SCORE / HDRA / ARVRA / A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech - MDR, MORE, Glen Helen BajaCup
Retired Fabricator
'58 Baja with 955K Miles and counting
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
Tech Inspection: SCCA / SCORE / HDRA / ARVRA / A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech - MDR, MORE, Glen Helen BajaCup
Retired Fabricator
'58 Baja with 955K Miles and counting
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Re: Diagonal arm pivot bolt for I.R.S.
... and the SS wire, if I remember correctly, is a bit brittle. I forgot about it until Dusty mentioned it.dustymojave wrote:I have figured out that the torsional force on the bolt in question can be rather substantial. I'm not feeling real confident of .025 stainless safety wire in that application. I've seen a holder made of the head of a bolt with a 17mmm hex welded to a piece of 1/8" bar stock and bolted to a tab welded to the torsion housing tube...and the bar stock broken clean off and the bolt lost. I've seen 5/16" Gr 5 bolts at the bar/tab connection broken. Then again, I've seen a number of cars with no method of bolt retention at all that never lost a bolt in many years of use.
I like to lube the inside of the bushing and the outside of the sleeve with spray graphite before assembly. Then red Loc-Tite on the clean threads.
Then the 3/16 cotter pin or 1/4" bolt across the end of a tube or a pair of tabs welded on. One customer had used 1/4" stovebolts in his. One of the IRS pivot bolts had worked against the screw and worn 3/4 of the way through. It was still holding. But would not have for much longer.
- dustymojave
- Posts: 2312
- Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:08 pm
Re: Diagonal arm pivot bolt for I.R.S.
Stainless safety wire is not real brittle. It's aerospace safety wire made for the job. But I would consider .040" to be rather small for that particular job.
I have .025" and .040" in the garage. I mentioned before seeing a 1/4" screw for retaining the pivot bolt being nearly worn through. As I said, there can be some serious torque on those bolts.
I have .025" and .040" in the garage. I mentioned before seeing a 1/4" screw for retaining the pivot bolt being nearly worn through. As I said, there can be some serious torque on those bolts.
Richard
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
Tech Inspection: SCCA / SCORE / HDRA / ARVRA / A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech - MDR, MORE, Glen Helen BajaCup
Retired Fabricator
'58 Baja with 955K Miles and counting
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
Tech Inspection: SCCA / SCORE / HDRA / ARVRA / A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech - MDR, MORE, Glen Helen BajaCup
Retired Fabricator
'58 Baja with 955K Miles and counting
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- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm
Re: Diagonal arm pivot bolt for I.R.S.
I must be getting (*^*(&^(). What I was trying to talk about is the tight, hair pin bend and the twisting being made and yes, the diameter of the wire is important as well as the material itself and also the tight bend radius. I've played with CRES/SS wire only a couple of times (given to me) and have had it fail/fracture on me at least once (too long ago to remember much more than that).