evernon's Baja Build

Offroad VW based vehicles have problems/insights all their own. Not to mention the knowledge gained in VW durability.
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CentralWAbaja
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Re: evernon's Baja Build

Post by CentralWAbaja »

Devastator wrote:Sounds like Hedrock....
Hedrock is way to ACVW to have a suby power :wink:

This one taint suby either but I think its what you are looking for?

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=125850&start=150

Scroll down a ways to see that tilt seat mechanism

The red suby that I remember from Idaho was this one...not a virt though

http://www.americansandassociation.org/ ... &sk=t&sd=a

looks like all the pics are gone now...to bad :cry:
It is not Mickey Moused.....It's Desert Engineered!
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bajaherbie
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Re: evernon's Baja Build

Post by bajaherbie »

look at summits webpage..... lots of drag cars have swing out door bars that use some sort of locking device. they might have something that will will work.


baja4 has a red car but i can't remember what engine it has...
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evernon
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Re: evernon's Baja Build

Post by evernon »

The post on the ASA site is the one I had read. He does include fairly good instructions as to how he built his t bar but it is a bummer that the pics are gone. If I go with a continuous bar with a pin on each end, it seems like it would be a hassle to get it out of the way to enter the back. Maybe both seats would need to be tilted forward to get the bar out of the way as it would be connected to the top back of each seat by the harness straps. I am thinking that a hinged t config with a quick release pin on each outside bar sounds appealing.
evernon
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Re: evernon's Baja Build

Post by evernon »

Does anybody know where I could find weld on 1.5" 2 bolt clamp similar to the clamps that hold a standard VW beam to a rail chassis? All I have found is the larger beam clamps. Maybe I don't know the correct terminology to search. I am trying to find a way to make the rear bumper upper support bars detachable so that the bumper cage can be removed.

Thanks
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Big Dave
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Re: evernon's Baja Build

Post by Big Dave »

Never seen one like you are describing. The slick way to go is to use these:
http://camburg.com/store/fabrication-pa ... be-clamps/
There are cheaper knock offs available though.
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dustymojave
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Re: evernon's Baja Build

Post by dustymojave »

My shoulder bar for access to the back seat of my Baja Bug:
Image

Image

The fasteners are 1/2" aircraft quick-release pins. They aint cheap these days. I got mine back in the late 70s. Tabs are 3/16" x 1.25" steel. There is a tab welded against the back of the roll cage B pillar, which the pin has to pass through as well as the pin which stands by itself. The hole in the B pillar had to be oversize so the detent balls of the pins could expand and lock against the back side of the tab welded to the B pillar. The cross tube in the ends of the shoulder bar for the pins to fit is 1/2" ID 3/4" OD DOM (shock boss pieces) welded into the ends of the shoulder tube. The shoulder tube ends were heated and hammered to wrap around the bosses and the welds closed.

Yeah...raising the bar out of the way is a PITA. It's not a good solution for a DD that will see daily use of the back seat. That wasn't my intent. The front seats in my Bug are sport seats which fold forward. This is probably a better choice than seats which tip forward, as those tend to hit the dash or windshield and not tip very far out of the way.
Richard
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
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no1clyde
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Re: evernon's Baja Build

Post by no1clyde »

Evernon I have some very close to what you describe that came off a 10 wheel dump truck's U-joints. You may try going to a truck repair shop and ask to see the largest U-joint caps they have.

Ed
evernon
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Re: evernon's Baja Build

Post by evernon »

Made some progress but I am hung up on what I thought would be the easy part. I am trying to wire my brake & turn signals combined with a Hopkins tail light converter. The converter is supposed to override the brake signal with the turn so that you can get running lights, turn and brake with a two filament bulb. I returned the 1st converter after not being able to get any current flowing through the unit towards the rear lights. The way I have it wired is with a three position (on-off-on) switch allowing 12v to either flasher then on to the converter then to rear lights. I believe that the bulbs should draw around 2 amps each on the brake or turn circuits so I should not be overloading the converter. The replacement converter I just installed is operating identical to the 1st. Running lights work fine but no current passes through the unit for either turn signal or brake. If I test either side of the converter on the faulty circuits, there is no connectivity.

Either I have bought 2 faulty converter units (unlikely) or something in my design is causing the units to not function properly.

Any Ideas?
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TimS
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Re: evernon's Baja Build

Post by TimS »

Wish I could help you... I haven't used one of those black boxes since the mid 90's.
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: evernon's Baja Build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

Dustymojave, like I said, those are the type of pins they took away from us. I worked as a tech (drafter/tech designer) in engineering for most of my 34 years in aircraft and all but a few of the years were in the Interiors/Payloads groups where this kind of stuff would be used.

Since safety was primary: as I remember the reason for this kind of things discontinued use was jamming under load (not good), pulling-out under un-even loads, vibrating out, the handles (like the one you are using) breaking off or snagging someone's person or clothing during an emergency situation (testing or real life I am not sure plus it was so long ago that we were allowed to use them). Also, there are several different levels of qualities of those pins and the cheap ones are not the good ones so who sells the quality good ones... that I can't help you with anymore but I would be very careful buying though.

Also remember that "Aircraft Quality", "Aerospace Quality", etc. are just buzz words that are used in advertising than really doesn't mean anything... it just makes people go "Ooooo" :roll: and buy w/o really knowing what they're getting. With off-shore contracted suppliers providing "Spec" fasteners that look the same but are they... (the rest of a long rant deleted).

What FAA will allow and what EAA will allow are often two different things. Remember that Spec parts fall into at least two categories': flight ready and tooling (as I remember) and there is a big difference between them.

Sorry guys! :oops: Lee
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dustymojave
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Re: evernon's Baja Build

Post by dustymojave »

Lee, I got those pins from an aircraft supply house next door to an airport. I understand the difference between Flight Ready and tooling or ground equipment. I could not say which they were.

Here is a link to Grainger's page of pins.
http://www.grainger.com/search?searchQu ... elease+pin

Here is a link to McMaster's page of pins.
Image
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-quick ... ns/=tni6em
McMaster's list the shear strength of this type of pin in 3/8" size at 20,500lbs vs 7,951lbs for a Grade 5 bolt and 9,936lbs for a Gr 8, even though the pin is hollow.
(source - https://nucor-fastener.com/Files/PDFs/T ... rength.pdf)


Be sure you get heavy duty pins, not hardware store hitch pins - These are NOT acceptable for use in a roll cage!
Image
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-1- ... 5yc1vZc2d3
Richard
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
Tech Inspection: SCCA / SCORE / HDRA / ARVRA / A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech - MDR, MORE, Glen Helen BajaCup
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: evernon's Baja Build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

Two things:

EAA and FAA are way different in what they allow. If you got it at an airport supply house I would suspect it probably is under EAA rules which as I remember are way less strict than FAA. One of the engineers I worked for was building a home built airplane so I absorbed some of the EAA rules from him. Also in doing some research on things for here I again run into EAA URLs' and again, the differences are quite a bit more lax. In doing some research on this the Granger's and other supply houses did show the liners you posted but again, we had to use "Standards" that are probably quite a bit more expensive than even Granger's would have mainly because of the documentation that would have to come with each part. they could be the same part or something much superior but I would have no way of knowing so I would choose to error on the high side... not trying to be arrogant here. I look at this as being an emergency situation component so I would be tough on it just like I am sure you would be during and inspection for a race.

That being said, we on the road are not going to achieve the stresses that FAA could or would require designs' to handle (no pun intended!) and I still think in those lines; 34 years is a long time of thinking that way. Off-road, then we up the stakes a bit don't we.

The second: it what I almost posted before but thought I was being too picky. Those push buttons under certain loads or load conditions possibly could jam on you. For instance, in a panic situation you try to jerk/pull the pin before you press the button: the stops at the other end can get jammed in the liner or if no hardened liner in the softer material of the door frame and will not work and/nor will the button won't work to relieve the situation.

In the mid and later into in the 60's I spent some of my first few years of "apprentice time" working in the "emergency equipment" group which is where I got a lot of this. Up to that time what then were referred to as "pip-pins" (a brand name I think used generically as you can still query them on line) had been used up to that point but suddenly I was told "no more". I forget what was used after that but some of the explanations of why not's eventually came down from above but then I was transferred into another group for additional training there.

This is the kind of debate that I would see at my desk or in a design review meeting. Sometimes they got kind of loud too :lol: . (an aside) The first design review I stood in on... was at my desk. We were working on Mylar but still using plastic lead as the use/acceptance of acid base ink was a couple of years way and stybillo pencils would not reproduce well as it caused the lines to reflect flares when going through an Ozlid (sp) machine. Anyway, I was told to get a rolled copy the first thing in the morning to be ready for the supervisors and lead engineer "to talk" on. I came in early to do that but they were already there and in the process of taking my desk cover off while each was grabbing a pencil or a colored pencil (a grease pencil) out of their pocket and starting to draw on the original. They got loud, 350 people n the room stopped working, phones were ignored and were ringing, I was trying to hide but was being held in place (the lead engineer was amused to say the least); it took me over two days of solid work to get the marks off the Mylar (the high speed solvent we had been using had been banned by then as it was being absorbed by the skin and would head up to the brain... hmmmm maybe that is why I am what I am :roll: ).

Anyway, great discussion guys.

Lee
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dustymojave
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Re: evernon's Baja Build

Post by dustymojave »

Those push buttons under certain loads or load conditions possibly could jam on you. For instance, in a panic situation you try to jerk/pull the pin before you press the button: the stops at the other end can get jammed in the liner or if no hardened liner in the softer material of the door frame and will not work and/nor will the button won't work to relieve the situation.
In my experience, distortion of the device, - roll cage or whatever the pin is in - is the most likely cause of pin jamming. Sometimes if a roll cage is bent in a crash, other tools are required to remove the pin. In those cases it's most likely damage to the structure the pin is in, not damage to the pin which is the cause of trouble.

And yes, Lee. I still use the term "Pip pin" for them. But it's like the term Dzus Button is used for a generic term for other 1/4-turn fasteners.
Richard
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
Tech Inspection: SCCA / SCORE / HDRA / ARVRA / A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech - MDR, MORE, Glen Helen BajaCup
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: evernon's Baja Build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

Yup, I agree to both statements. If you twist the cage then the rules do change.

The most common style of Dzus buttons (with the internal wire in the receptacle) was taken away from us at about the same time as the Pip pins. EEA still allows them but it way is too easy to not secure them tight or correctly plus the spade type heads (looks like the mantel on a squid) are stronger. You can get sealed receptacles' for them too. http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=qua ... &FORM=IGRE This is just some of the styles available. Some are button fasteners and others are wing or other styles. If you look at Southco they show some of the receptacles including easy slide on receptacles'; http://www.southco.com/en-us/product/hi ... l?hid=7345 (southco was one of the vendors at the time I was working with them)

To be honest, I don't know what a good or best answer is to this but I brought it up so that people are aware and might consider it in their decisions. I was not necessary trying to be silly when I talked about the hydraulic option but you sure are going to get more grunt on a jammed device... if you needed to.
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Devastator
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Re: evernon's Baja Build

Post by Devastator »

Ol'fogasaurus wrote:The most common style of Dzus buttons (with the internal wire in the receptacle) was taken away from us at about the same time as the Pip pins.
No wonder airplanes are so damned expensive. You can't buy anything to build them with. :roll:
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