Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

Offroad VW based vehicles have problems/insights all their own. Not to mention the knowledge gained in VW durability.

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dustymojave
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Re: Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

Post by dustymojave » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:43 am

Honk as you go by on 58 Lee. Just west of Boron.

:lol:

There's a couple hills, Edwards AFB, and about 30 miles between my house and Hwy58. But still pretty much in the neighborhood. I can see Edwards AFB between hills 3 miles west of my house. So maybe you better flash your lights too, as I might not be able to hear your horn due to the wind and the noise of aircraft.

8)
Richard
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Re: Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:32 am

I know what you mean Dusty. I live close to an airport; one of the one where The Boeing Company builds airplanes. I used to hear the testing of engines but since they have quieted them down a lot it isn't as noisy. Still... a lot of aircraft flying in and out for testing, delivery including
Boing Dream-lifter.jpg
which flies in fuselage sections for assembly in Everett. A big honker for sure and it comes in low.

With all the allergies around this year plus all the bronchitis and similar things going around I might just blow my nose or sneeze instead of honk... louder than the noisy button :roll: :lol: .

My youngest stepson is coming in next week and we are thinking about going to the airplane graveyard and places around that. It will interfere with pottery as I am far behind some promises. This is going to be our last Snowbird trip down here as we plan on selling the MH when we get home. Got some thank you pottery pieces (at least 10 and I am not getting something for everyone) to get done.

Been busy doing pottery but also thinking about the black buggy... a lot.

Lee
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Re: Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:59 pm

Back on the buggy (for a change) and back on the steering issue.

I have been told that a Geo Metro R&P can pretty easily be fit to the VW beam. Looking at it is an end steer unit where the steering box is located to the driver's side (http://www.partsgeek.com/kz7bryw-geo-me ... -rack.html). Does anyone know the spline count on the input shaft (universal hookup) and information on how to hook it up to the BJ spindles.

I would prefer a center steer unit so this is a starting point on how to do it.

update: http://chircoestore.com/off-road-rack-a ... rails.html video... interesting but is it 1:1 or 2:1?

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Re: Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

Post by dustymojave » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:40 pm

The Geo unit MAY BE OK for a street buggy. I don't recommend it for offroad use. Ratio is QUITE important.

The other is a heavy duty offroad unit, Again, check the ratio.
Last edited by dustymojave on Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Richard
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'58 Baja with 815K Miles and counting

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Re: Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

Post by Leatherneck » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:48 pm

Following to se what you do Lee

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Re: Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

Post by Leatherneck » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:48 pm

Following to se what you do Lee

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Re: Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:43 pm

Yeah, me too.

If I get a chance I may call the toll free line and see if I can get some info on it. Something tells me it is 1:1 so I would have to unit that you can put in-line that allows you to speed up or reduce the steering box ratio. I haven't been able to find that one on line yet.

I did a search using the 2:1 ratio and got some of the same boxes but when you look at them the ratios are not given in the right ups. LRs was 1:1 but there is an expensive one that is 2:1 (I forget the name) that by the time you get it all done does get a bit higher than I want to spend but....

I want to do this once and do it right the first time.

Still futzing around with the seats so that anyone in the family, short or tall could use/drive the buggy in the future.

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Re: Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:27 pm

It is looking like it won't be until late this week or early next week that I am going to be able to get the information I want. Between family Dr. apts., taxes and trying to get the yard work done (between rain storms) and get someone to come out to get a bid on the blown down fence gate, this is going to be a busy place for a while. The one guy I did try to get a hold of was out of the office the only chance I had to talk to him.

I agree with Dusty that for the street the Geo unit might be OK and maybe how I personally drive on the sand it might be OK but I don't want anyone in my family or if they sold it to someone to get less than they need to be safe especially if they run into a hard drop like I have done twice when a dune crest fell away and my blue buggy and I fell 10 to 15 feet and landed hard.

If you looked at the video on the URL I posted it looks to be a doable thing with a stock width beam with some machine work and shortening and re-threading of the tie-rod ends to fit a stock width beam. Add to that the reaming of the spindles. I also not forgetting about the potential of going with the aftermarket K&L beam to BJ frame head either. At the same time I am gritting my teeth over reaming the rare Type 181 spindles for Ford tie-rod ends.

The beam I am building will still have the adjusters, stops and shock tower supports and will be missing the extra leaves of the torsion stacks... top and bottom.

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Re: Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:49 pm

I called chircoestore.com/ today but had a very bad connection. I did find out that the ratio of the steering box is 1 1/2 turns lock to lock and after a bunch of fighting with the site (I'm not a member so it kept kicking me out of the search mode) I finally found it: http://chircoestore.com/heavy-duty-off- ... ckage.html

Do you think 1 1/2 is still going to be a bit too stiff for ladies to turn. There isn't going to be much weight up front but there are the Razorbacks too be dealt with.

From another conversation a super beetle R&P was suggested but I think it would still be too light of duty for the potential things that can happen out on the dunes.

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Re: Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

Post by cbeck » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:35 pm

Looks like the rp I put on mine. Definitely harder to turn than the vw box I removed. Reminds me of a short story. When the germans came to this country to settle, they were a hard working bunch. They were a stout, hairy people not bothered by the cold. After lots of hard work setting up the fields and homesteads, they sent for thier husbands :shock: If you can fit it, you would need to go up a couple sizes on the diameter to bring it closer to stock box effort. I was kind of shocked to feel how much harder it was to turn,and how mich less turning diameter I had.

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Re: Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:27 pm

Thanks check that is more or less what I was afraid of :x . I thought 2 turns might be a tough steer even with not too much weight onthe front end but the Razor Backs could make it even worse at slow speeds. We checked and a stock VW Type I box is roughly 2 3/4 turns lock to lock. Hmmmm!

As far as steering wheel dia goes I think mine is a 13 1/2" unit and its going to be a tight fit as is. This is getting more and more complicated as I make it more complicated :evil: .

With the turnino brakes on sand I am not that worried about the turning radius, more about not breaking steering components on compression or hang and turning effort on the wet sand at slow speeds. My contact patch on hard pavement is very small so that isn't a problem but in deep, soft, dry sand that changes.

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Re: Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:04 pm

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway- ... t=Speedway

This is a steering quickener and it increases speed of the steering box by 50%... as I understand it but what does that translate to effort (rhetorical question). Looking at one of the quickeners that Howe sells, in the Q&A part, the question asked: ~can you swap it end for end and slow things down with an answer of "yes" (plus more dialogue). So: if I put one on the 1 1/2 turn steering box in the reversed direction I would get ~3 turns of the wheel which is close to a stock bugs 2 3/4 turns lock to lock. Does that also translate to less effort in turning the wheel? I think so but that might be wishful thinking on my part. Any opinions?

It is getting more and more complicated... which could be either good or bad.

Update: this looks interesting http://www.ebay.com/itm/Long-2-1-Steeri ... 1685447295

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Re: Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:33 pm

I am beginning to look at how to hook the stock steering box up via rotating the steering box some. Not a pleasant thing to think of by me. Getting too expensive... maybe!

Can the Pittman arm be safely bent some to get the joints in some kind of close position to stock?

Lee

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Re: Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

Post by dustymojave » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:08 am

Overthinking can be problematic. A stock steering box can be used with the column under that low hood. You may need to remove the little bumps that locate the steering box clamp on the underside of the upper beam tube. Then when the box is rotated to the correct angle, weld the clamp to the beam tube.

Just using wheels and tires that provide minimal scrub radius will make the steering EZ.
Richard
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills!, but then...So does OLD AGE!!
A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech Inspection
MDR / MORE / Glen Helen BajaCup Challenge
AKA: MojaveRacer208
'58 Baja with 815K Miles and counting

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Re: Ol'fogasaurus black buggy

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:02 am

That is what I am looking into... again Dusty. Over the years of playing with cars, work and how I was brought up I have developed a penchant for doing things right the first time and not putting problems on other people; I don't intentionally do things to others if I don't like having them done to me. I have been told that when I am gone my stuff will go also (this was a serious conversation with my wife); maybe even before my Bar-B-Que :roll: :lol: . There are two things I am concerned about: getting rid of the "rag-joint" and the rotating of the steering box which affects the geometry some (I do have a distance to go on pavements and it is a curvy road). Also, with the potential of more travel I am adding the angle of the tie-rods bothers me some (the front beam supports I am adding should not have that much effect but I will have to check that out too just to be sure).

If I get a chance today the buggy will be leveled out, the front wheels will be taken off for access. I will put the stock steering box on again to see what has to/can be done with the stock VW box and how good or bad it is (I don't like the idea of rotating it especially if someone else gets it and tried to make the buggy street legal which should be able to be done quite easily... but.

As a quick measurement: the rear arc of the upper tube in the beam is less that 12" to the firewall. The lower edge of the dash is ~22" off the floor (that includes the 3" body lift. The height of the firewall is hard to measure as it is an arc. Looking at my notes: putting a short person (~5' 4") in the seat then a tall person (~6:3) in the seat: the comfortable location of the center of the hub of the steering wheel ranges from 20.5" to 22.5". Double checked: the shorter person was easily comfortable with the 22.5" height to the center of the hub of the steering wheel.

Lee

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