Buggy project - what to fix first

Offroad VW based vehicles have problems/insights all their own. Not to mention the knowledge gained in VW durability.

Moderators: Leatherneck, rickosuave1987

Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 13218
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:17 am
Location: Just north of Seattle

Re: Buggy project - what to fix first

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:15 pm

I haven't seen exoskeletons do what they supposed to accomplish; too much to accomplish and can get you into what the rock bouncers are looking like as a final look to be safe.

User avatar
Piledriver
Moderator
Posts: 21748
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Van Alstyne, Texas

Re: Buggy project - what to fix first

Post by Piledriver » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:32 pm

Ol'fogasaurus wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:15 pm
I haven't seen exoskeletons do what they supposed to accomplish; too much to accomplish and can get you into what the rock bouncers are looking like as a final look to be safe.
I'n this case I'm merely suggesting to put the "door bars"/ladder frame on the outside of the tub, rather than a full blown exoskeleton.
A full exo frame would be ridiculous for any sane intended use, and ruin the looks of the vehicle.

Tied in ladder frames on the sides could look ~like factory, puts the bars out of the driver/passenger space, and moves them away from the occupants giving them more room to work if ever needed.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 13218
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:17 am
Location: Just north of Seattle

Re: Buggy project - what to fix first

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:56 pm

0f5b592fc12cdedfd9089221ecd27719[1].jpg
If I remember correctly, you should know much more about geometry, load transfer and other engineering principles than I do but my point is that the side bar exoskeleton just isn't going to cut it.

Two pierces of the glass buggy body to connect to the A and B pillars and, assuming a well built body lift to connect to the bottom of the body (connecting to the pan itself will accomplish virtually nothing) but the cage is still inside so the diagonals would end up being remote; e.g., you still have too much unsupported area to justify what is asked of it to do. Unless you connect to the frame head or beam you have nothing in the front of the cage which you would need and pretty much the same for the rear. I have seen T-boned rails, luckily there was no one on the side hit.

On the street it is like driving a motorcycle... you have to be more aware of your surroundings and the idiots around you than most people do in a car. One of the other things that got me to take my buggy off the street was that when kids saw me, on the street, they would run out into the street to look yelling and point ignoring traffic (like a big version of a toy they play with)... a responsibility I didn't want. Even with it on a trailer cars would slide over into my lane to get close enough for the kids to look and point.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Leatherneck
Moderator
Posts: 16195
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:47 pm
Location: Way south of Seattle
Contact:

Re: Buggy project - what to fix first

Post by Leatherneck » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:31 pm

I enjoy the attention I get while driving the rail on the streets, people starring at me brings back memories of when I did Porn movies, people starring and pointing. lok, sorry for the highjack .

Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 13218
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:17 am
Location: Just north of Seattle

Re: Buggy project - what to fix first

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:15 pm

Leatherneck wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:31 pm
I enjoy the attention I get while driving the rail on the streets, people starring at me brings back memories of when I did Porn movies, people starring and pointing. lok, sorry for the highjack .
Adults are one thing; they can do themselves harm but kids are another thing.

I didn't know you a movie star :roll: :lol: . I was on TV once ferrying aqua tanks between boats on a deep water SCUBA drowning. The water temp was in the high 40s and I wasn't wearing a wet suit :shock: .

User avatar
Piledriver
Moderator
Posts: 21748
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Van Alstyne, Texas

Re: Buggy project - what to fix first

Post by Piledriver » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:06 am

Leather doesn't have a cage or anything in it yet so integrating everything and making it mostly external is an option.

Due to the body lip, the top "door bars" can be 6" out and 4" diameter drill pipe if you so desire :twisted:
(assuming you can bend 4" x .385" wall ~spring steel, that should effectively stop most things driving through).

Thusly-ish, only using NASCAR style door bar setup. Ish. How far you go will depend on your level of side-impact paranoia.
I personally think this works with the design, and is ~fully functional, unlike that mad-max wannabe setup above..
Would also easily tie into the body lift, making an integrated, strong chassis..

The upper bar would curve out (yes, curve) and run right under the lip of the body for strength and crush space that does not include you.
(pic borrowed from ebay, local to-me sale apparently, sold for 20K)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Street-Legal ... 7675.l2557
Exo-frame-manx.jpg
nascar-style-door-bars.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 13218
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:17 am
Location: Just north of Seattle

Re: Buggy project - what to fix first

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:58 am

From what I am seeing the cage s/b strong but there is a lot of information missing as far as the side bars go.

Class 11 streeter also has an EMPI Imp which has the "easy in and out" relief added in the body just behind the dash which dips down fairly low (and yes, I have seen buggies with actual doors or door like reliefs in them. I wonder if the one I was offered is still around) making the side protection sit down lower or be modified to fit the outside contour.

I do like what looks like thick walled square stock rather than round stock as it should be stronger on a side hit but attaching directly to the pan isn't worth talking about; so weak! One option would be to bend a piece of thick walled rectangular tube to shape then remove the channel and attach the floor to it. Stronger but still inside of the outside body lines.

A thick walled body lift is going to help also; something with substance to have the side protection to attach to but the door bars will still be cantilevered out and not part of the main structure per se. The first time I stepped into my buggy after the body lift was added you could feel the lack of pan flex even before you sat down. I also mount my seats low (like a rail) for some protection and lowering the CG.

The way the body is there probably isn't room to have the door bars inside of the body unless the seats are moved in towards the tunnel much more than stock. One of the things that is going on with my black buggy right now.
Dune Buggy rebuild 10-25-06 003 (2).jpg
If his buggy has the old style of rear body mount: with a "C-channel" turned on it's side and the ends relieved to fit on and between the rear shock towers so that it supports the package tray (On the short wheel base cars the package tray sits so high I wouldn't put people there [again] as it just isn't safe since you are so far outside of the body lines).

I didn't cut my buggy body up as much as I should have as the body style is fairly rare but if I did it again.... I would.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Class 11 streeter
Posts: 4057
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 3:01 am
Location: Antelope Valley, Ca

Re: Buggy project - what to fix first

Post by Class 11 streeter » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:10 pm

Hey all, thanks for the massive amount of info. I am reading and absorbing and plotting and planning. And definitely in over my head. I showed my welder buddy the build threads Ol'fogasaurus linked to and he says a similar body lift is very do-able at the shadetree level. The cage later may be farmed out but it's a good start.
So you think your project is taking forever eh? Well you've got nothing on me.....

User avatar
Leatherneck
Moderator
Posts: 16195
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:47 pm
Location: Way south of Seattle
Contact:

Re: Buggy project - what to fix first

Post by Leatherneck » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:12 pm

Good to have you back Monte

User avatar
dustymojave
Posts: 2028
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:08 am
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal

Re: Buggy project - what to fix first

Post by dustymojave » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:32 am

I have one of those projects on the back burner too.

My advice is to make sure the title for the pan is clear before you invest time and money on the project. But divorce the body from the pan before you take the pan to CHP for number check, so that in case the pan is listed as stolen some time in it's past, you don't lose the body as well as the pan.
Richard
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills!, but then...So does OLD AGE!!
A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech Inspection
MDR / MORE / Glen Helen BajaCup Challenge
AKA: MojaveRacer208
'58 Baja with 815K Miles and counting

Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 13218
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:17 am
Location: Just north of Seattle

Re: Buggy project - what to fix first

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:13 pm

dustymojave wrote:
Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:32 am
I have one of those projects on the back burner too.

My advice is to make sure the title for the pan is clear before you invest time and money on the project. But divorce the body from the pan before you take the pan to CHP for number check, so that in case the pan is listed as stolen some time in it's past, you don't lose the body as well as the pan.
Very, and I mean VERY good advice. I would also suggest a copy of the ad you bought it from but, as Dusty said, I wouldn't show it unless it becomes necessary to protect yourself. Sorry to say it but honesty is not the "normal" anymore.

Lee

User avatar
dustymojave
Posts: 2028
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:08 am
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal

Re: Buggy project - what to fix first

Post by dustymojave » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:19 am

I'm BIG on honesty. But I don't advocate stupidity. Questions not asked need never be answered or lied about.
Richard
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills!, but then...So does OLD AGE!!
A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech Inspection
MDR / MORE / Glen Helen BajaCup Challenge
AKA: MojaveRacer208
'58 Baja with 815K Miles and counting

Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 13218
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:17 am
Location: Just north of Seattle

Re: Buggy project - what to fix first

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:42 am

Yes... and no.

After talking to a couple of inspectors it is obvious: they have pretty much seen and heard it all. According to them (right or wrong) it is often easy to see signals of something (potentually) wrong. Be honest, be prepared and be ready!

From what I have been told each state is different; some states are easier than other to get something through inspections than others.

User avatar
Class 11 streeter
Posts: 4057
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 3:01 am
Location: Antelope Valley, Ca

Re: Buggy project - what to fix first

Post by Class 11 streeter » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:43 pm

I have a california vehicle title company I have worked with in the past I will probably use, Quick Plates in Huntington Beach. They got my 1950 Chevy panel truck titled on their authorized VIN inspection and I didn't have to explain to a DMV clerk why my vehicle didn't have "both" taillights or seat belts or an airbag. Quick Plates is very buggy experienced also. My real concern is insurance.
So you think your project is taking forever eh? Well you've got nothing on me.....

Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 13218
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:17 am
Location: Just north of Seattle

Re: Buggy project - what to fix first

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:56 pm

Class 11 streeter wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:43 pm
I have a california vehicle title company I have worked with in the past I will probably use, Quick Plates in Huntington Beach. They got my 1950 Chevy panel truck titled on their authorized VIN inspection and I didn't have to explain to a DMV clerk why my vehicle didn't have "both" taillights or seat belts or an airbag. Quick Plates is very buggy experienced also. My real concern is insurance.
Impressed and that is for sure!

Insurance can be a big deal. The insurance company I used to use was bought out and changed quite a bit since then. Not sure where the start or stop now. My insurance company recommended them.

Not sure what to do if your insurance company will not insure you or make a recommendation. Now days it seems to be all or nothing.

Lee

Post Reply