it me again guys . it still sounds like when i turn mt 69 auto square over and it starts , a high pitch metal to metal sound and a jar full off marbles rattling around my engine. Im hoping its my starter not disengaging , rather than something in the engine but whatever it is it will be a learning expierience .
Anyways , when i turn my ignition back off ( it only runs with key turned all the way forward ) a click , the car shuts down but theres somthing free spinning for about 3 seconds then slows to a stop . Is this normal in vw's ? Could my starer be running the whole time engine is running ?
Ive adjusted valves and retorqed the cylinder head bolts . ANY IDEA'S GUYS ????????
thanks beforehand for any idears .
I also bypassed auto nuetral switch with a wire . there are also 2 terminals on starter , fi to carbs so 1 terminal is open/ am i using the wrong terminal???
marbles in my engine ?????
- Bobnotch
- Posts: 1157
- Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 12:01 am
You might find this hard to believe, but those 2 smaller starter connections are connected together inside the solenoid, and do the same thing. This means you can connect to them either way and it should still work. The unused connector was for the cold start valve and it only got power when the starter was turning over. It does however sound as though you've got a bad ignition switch, as you only need to turn all the way for start, then let go of the key for it to be in run. If yours isn't doing this, then yes, you are trying to run the starter and the engine at the same time and it SHOULD make horrible noises. You can bypass a few things to see if the noise is starter related or engine related though. Leave the ignition switch off, as for these tests you aren't going to use it. The first is to run a wire from the battery + terminal to the coil + terminal (#15), as this will give 12 volts to the engine and allow it to run, the second is to unhook your jumper (at the shifter) and touch this wire (starter half of it) to the battery+ terminal to start the engine. You only need to touch it there long enough for the engine to start. One of two things will happen:
1) It starts and it is now quiet (no rattling noises) then you found your problem. The starter was staying engaged.
2) It started, but, however it is still making noises, then its probably a screw that holds the fan shroud in place that has backed out and is bouncing around inside the shroud.
If its #1, then you need to replace the ignition switch (its keeping the starter engaged), and if its #2, then you need to remove the fan shoud and fix the screw.
Now unhook the coil wire at the battery end to shut off the engine, and remove the wire, also reattach the other wire to the shifter connection. I hope this helps you out.
1) It starts and it is now quiet (no rattling noises) then you found your problem. The starter was staying engaged.
2) It started, but, however it is still making noises, then its probably a screw that holds the fan shroud in place that has backed out and is bouncing around inside the shroud.
If its #1, then you need to replace the ignition switch (its keeping the starter engaged), and if its #2, then you need to remove the fan shoud and fix the screw.
Now unhook the coil wire at the battery end to shut off the engine, and remove the wire, also reattach the other wire to the shifter connection. I hope this helps you out.
no dice , shcucks
Well bob notch , how bout this .
1) igh. off and i put a wire from + on coil to battery and my car would turn over and run , is that normal ?. it ran for a cupple seconds thenn died out. By the time i got around to jumper wire on at shifter my batt was dead ., trying turning over but wouldnt get car started .Big drain on battery doin that so i would start w \ key and would start up easily . well untill batt was totally dead .
2) does everyones or some VW's engines free spin a little after shut down or could that be my staret stiil spinning .
HMMMMM ANY IDEAS GUYS , THANKS FOR EVERYTHING FOLKS!!!!!
1) igh. off and i put a wire from + on coil to battery and my car would turn over and run , is that normal ?. it ran for a cupple seconds thenn died out. By the time i got around to jumper wire on at shifter my batt was dead ., trying turning over but wouldnt get car started .Big drain on battery doin that so i would start w \ key and would start up easily . well untill batt was totally dead .
2) does everyones or some VW's engines free spin a little after shut down or could that be my staret stiil spinning .
HMMMMM ANY IDEAS GUYS , THANKS FOR EVERYTHING FOLKS!!!!!
- Bobnotch
- Posts: 1157
- Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 12:01 am
It sounds like something isn't wired right. Just adding a wire to the coil from the battery shouldn't make it start AND run. I think you found your problem though, the starter wasn't disengaging, due to something wrong in the ignition switch, or the wiring from it to the starter. That is why I recommended doing this small test to find out where to really start looking for the solution. How did you bypass the neutral safety switch? Did you just plug the 2 large red wires together? If so, then you really need to look at the ignition switch itself, as something isn't right.
I have one more small test for you, unhook the jumpered starter wire connection, turn the ignition switch to the on position, and touch the starter wire end to the battery (it will give a small spark, but not much). This should turn the motor over and even start it.
If it doesn't, then your not getting power thru the ignition switch to the engine. I had this happen to me once before when the PO tagged the wires wrong (he was replacing the electrical part of the ignition switch) and I just hooked then up as they said. Found out afterward that they were wrong and it was just a matter of swapping the 2 wires to get it right.
If you have an ohm meter you can find this out real quick. With the battery unhooked from the car, hook one end of the ohm meter to the big red wire from the fuse box (or the head light switch if working on a 68 to 70), and the other to the wires, what you want is with the ign in the run position to be 0 ohms (find that one and tag it with a piece of masking tape) this wire needs to feed the fuse box switched power to the coil (terminal #15), you can check this by turning the key off, and the needle will swing back to infinity (the other way). Then move to the starter wire, with the switch in start this wire will have 0 ohms, but when the key is released it will drop to infinity (needle swings the other way). Tag this wire as it needs to go to the starter. You should now be able to get this to work correctly. I hope this helps.
I have one more small test for you, unhook the jumpered starter wire connection, turn the ignition switch to the on position, and touch the starter wire end to the battery (it will give a small spark, but not much). This should turn the motor over and even start it.
If it doesn't, then your not getting power thru the ignition switch to the engine. I had this happen to me once before when the PO tagged the wires wrong (he was replacing the electrical part of the ignition switch) and I just hooked then up as they said. Found out afterward that they were wrong and it was just a matter of swapping the 2 wires to get it right.
If you have an ohm meter you can find this out real quick. With the battery unhooked from the car, hook one end of the ohm meter to the big red wire from the fuse box (or the head light switch if working on a 68 to 70), and the other to the wires, what you want is with the ign in the run position to be 0 ohms (find that one and tag it with a piece of masking tape) this wire needs to feed the fuse box switched power to the coil (terminal #15), you can check this by turning the key off, and the needle will swing back to infinity (the other way). Then move to the starter wire, with the switch in start this wire will have 0 ohms, but when the key is released it will drop to infinity (needle swings the other way). Tag this wire as it needs to go to the starter. You should now be able to get this to work correctly. I hope this helps.
nuetral swich
Bobnotch , thanks a zillion for your time and knowlegde ! Im in Hawaii and there are no vw specialist on this island (kaua;i) . Im a young father so cant afford a machanic but am still able to build little rockets with help from others ( knowledge) and i put in the effort
Anyways , can i just add the two red wires toghether ? This is how i did it :
The stock switch had 1 red wire on top going over to a black wire when the shifter goes into nuetral and the same on the bottom . Another red being brigded to black when shifter engagded in nuetral.
So i put the top red to the top black and the bottom red with the bottom black . Is this wrong ????
Thanks for all your help BN!
Anyways , can i just add the two red wires toghether ? This is how i did it :
The stock switch had 1 red wire on top going over to a black wire when the shifter goes into nuetral and the same on the bottom . Another red being brigded to black when shifter engagded in nuetral.
So i put the top red to the top black and the bottom red with the bottom black . Is this wrong ????
Thanks for all your help BN!
- Bobnotch
- Posts: 1157
- Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 12:01 am
Ok, the neutral safety switch also combines with the back up light switch. Just so that know this. What you want to connect are the 2 red wires on the one end only. If you connect the black one (that would be straight across) to the red you get power to the starter all the time or none of the time (depending on which one you used). I only say that because the back up lites get power when the key is on only, and the starter gets power when the key is in start only. So, yes you have found your wiring problem. Try this fix first (connecting the 2 red wires together) before adding a starter button. Let us know if this works. I hope this helps.