type one front end on a type three part II

kvariant · Post by **kvariant** » Tue Oct 22, 2002 1:13 pm

Hey there,
I know I've asked you guys about this before, and the consensus was that a type one front end would be very difficult to install on a type three. The problem being the fame heads are so different, and to swap frame heads was a pretty big deal. Well, I was just looking through the December VW trends, and they have a feature on a yellow squareback with a narrowed type one front end installed. There was no mention about swapping the frame head. Do you guys think it is possible to modify the type one beame to mount in the same mannor as the type three unit? How do you guys think this was done, and how much work do you think was involved. the only reason I bring this up again is becasue the type one parts are so easy to find...
Thanks,
Will

Air-Cooled Head · Post by **Air-Cooled Head** » Tue Oct 22, 2002 7:14 pm

That is one sweet Square!
Now, I'm just guessing because it's been a long time since I pulled a T1 beam, & never did a T3.
But from looking at my Bentley manuals, it appears that the primary diff is the torsion tubes; kinda flat on T3, round on T1. Perhaps some type of adapter was made to accept the round tubes? Since the tie rods pass through the body on a T3, some other mods are probably required.
However, from the amount of work done on that car, I wouldn't doubt the framehead was swapped.

kvariant · Post by **kvariant** » Tue Oct 22, 2002 8:22 pm

I was thinking that the front mounts on the pan were probably cut off and some sort of cross bar was welded on, joining the two arms together, and that this bar was drilled and tapped so that the type one beam could bolt on. I would think that the one could also include accomidations for the front body mounts on this bar as well. But I'm just speculating. I just wish type three front end parts were more common. I bet the time a person like me would have to spend on such a conversion would be better spent just finding the parts I need.....
Later,
Will

kvariant · Post by **kvariant** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 1:55 pm

Cool,
If I have some spaqir time I think I will give them a call. I would like to know how they did it. If I get in touch with anyone there I'll post my findings...
Will

JawKnee · Post by **JawKnee** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:23 pm

I am actually donating a pan to the cause of adding a T1 frame head!! A friend of mine met a guy who can do this. He says the T1 front end is already 2 inches narrower than a T3, and the front end will be 2 inches lower than the stock T3 front end.. but you get the benefits of adding dropped spindles, and adjusters.. and the biggie - caster shims!! I am hoping to take pics of the progress, and post it on my site. I will keep you all updated.

Evidently the guy who does this just sold a rolling pan that he made this way and it worked very well. I think the cost was going to be $600, supplying your own pan. I don't know if that includes the frame heads and labor or just labor etc... I'll keep you all updated!

Johnny

Johnny

Post by **Tom Notch** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 8:34 pm

Caster shims for a t3 is not difficult to do. You just have to know where to find tapered shim stock. The track is only 20mm different between a T1 and T3 and I think that is all in the wheel offsets.

A type one beam is easy , relative, to install in a t3 with NO major modification. A narrowed T1 is a bit more difficult. But the trailing arms are a different length and it changes the wheelbase the way I have figured out. Not much but enough to maybe be an issue. That would require a modification to the frame head to correct.

I've discussed this and brain stormed this graft quite a bit over the last 2 years with several people. What may have stopped me, still mulling it over, was bottoming my notch out on the freeway at 70 mph. What hit was the clamps and the bottom of the spare tyre well. Not good. I have since raised my car up a bit.

I'm interested in the way that he did the graft, I may want to do something like this in the future. But driving my Notch over the passes at 80+ and not having handling issues is important to me.

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Tom Notch
Tom's Old VW Home

JawKnee · Post by **JawKnee** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 8:50 pm

Hey Tom! You know Jon Stewart right? He has the white fastback w/your roof rack and his dad has the red notch... Jon is who I am giving the pan to and having the conversion done.

I think that the 2" narrower comes from the fact that the T1 has drum brakes. I would imagine he would convert them to discs which would probably make them closer in length.

You know I have to ask where to get tapered caster stock right? Did you add these to yours? I am interested.

JOhnny

Air-Cooled Head · Post by **Air-Cooled Head** » Thu Oct 24, 2002 12:51 am

So I called them to find out how it was done, but only got voice mail. I'll try again later, but here's their contact info.
Tims Custom & Resto of VW
5316 Tennyson Street, Denver, CO 80212
(303) 456-6836

[email protected] · Post by **[email protected]** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 12:10 am

the difference (width) is not the disks. The type 3 front end is just wider. That is is a big part of why a type 3 rides better to begin with. I too have contimplated, but I am not ready to give up the type 3 handling, and smooth ride. A slammed type 3 rides as nice as a stock bug (or better) I don't think I would want my front end to feel like a lowered bug front end. try riding in a narrowed lowered beam bug, and you might just change your mind about the transplant

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[url=http://vintage_wurks.tripod.com/]http://vintage_wurks.tripod.com/[/url]

oldeskuel · Post by **oldeskuel** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 12:41 pm

Hey,

I'm going to have to get together with you local northwest guys working on this front end stuff. I've talked to Jon stewart a bit as he was interested in buying one of my squarebacks. the point is though that I'm working right now on a rebuilding a front beam and design another t3 beam with air bags. I'm also going to bag the rear but the front is more of a concern and a t1 beam is not really on my mind. I'd rather have a modified t3 beam with bags than a t1 beam.

take it easy

chris m

ps you guys may have seen my ride at puyallup. I didn't show it because it wasn't done but I was in the parking lot with the volks shop guys and some other folks. its a red and black 68 square. peace