Time to freshen up

Notches, fastbacks, squarebacks.

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Piledriver
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Re: Time to freshen up

Post by Piledriver » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:00 am

Adjust them with 1/4 turn preload.

It was suggested in the past to adjust for ~zero lash but as it heats up it starts beating on the circlips that hold the lifters together, which might be OK at idle or during cam break in. Maximizing the stroke is the idea, so they can pump themselves out.

Do note you still need to adjust your valves regularly, and it will be much harder to tell if you have a seat or valve going south with the hydros... things tend to let go with absolutely no warning using hydraulic lifters, that's why their use is discouraged.
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Re: Time to freshen up

Post by aircooledtechguy » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:59 am

I don't know how long you ran the engine, but it will take up to 60 seconds or more for oil to make it up to the rocker assemblies through the lifters. Lifters ONLY get a momentary shot of oil as the groove passes by the oil hole in the lifter bores. If you've ever forgotten to put on a valve cover after an adjustment and fired-up the motor, it's shocking at just how long it takes to make a mess on the floor. . .

The only motors I used to run hydros on was stock T4s. Over the years I tried everything you can imagine to prime them. From leaving them in a can of oil overnight to vacuum bagging (the wife loved that one), literally pumping them submerged in oil via a push rod chucked up in a drill press for leverage (drill press OFF, of course :wink: ), to dry and everything in between. Nothing helps. Nothing ever changed the break-in clanking and difficulty of hydros. NOTHING.

What I did the last few times was to just install them with assembly lube like any other lifter, fill the push rods w/ oil when assembling everything like I do with any other engine and just run the sh*t out of them. Eventually, they will pump-up; eventually. When I set the lash, I would adjust to ZERO lash + ONE turn and lock it down.

Once they pump-up the motor will sound fine. Hopefully, you won't go through this every time you start the car in the future. I have seen on engine's with lots of trouble-free miles, where a lifter just will not keep it's prime and every time it's started it sounds like a bag of marbles for anywhere from a split second to several minutes. 17 minutes is the record here at the shop for a lifter that refused to pump-up after the car sat a couple months in the winter. It took me driving the car a freeway speeds for 10 miles before it finally pumped-up and went silent again.

. . . And this is why I never run hydros and haven't for almost 8 years now! :evil: No more hydros for me or my clients.

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Max Welton
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Re: Time to freshen up

Post by Max Welton » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:29 am

Well, it looks like I'm finding out for myself.

I've taken the day off to finish hooking everything up (like the "heat") and do some shakedown driving. Since it's a different cam and a bit more compression the tune will need adjusting.

Of course I would rather be doing this in summer (it's 3ºF right now), but I did just see the snow-plow go by and the Blizzaks are on the car. Ah the joys of daily-driven aircooled.

In the Good News column ...

Oil pressure came up fine.
No oil leaks so far.
Everything except the TPS is working.

Max

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Re: Time to freshen up

Post by Piledriver » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:03 pm

Have a link to the lifters?

On a T4 the lifter oil feed is full flow, bore goes across the top of the lifter bores, rather than having to feed through lifter bores.
(T4=parallel oil feed vs T1/WBX series feed to a couple bores, the HVX oiling mods help some, but maybe not enough for hydros)

In the WBX, VW sadly reverted to the T1 bore-through-the-lifters bores oiling scheme, but the hydro lifters are turned down a mm or so over much of their length in the middle to allow full flow around the lifter to the next lifter feed rather than intermittent squirts. T4 solid lifters benefit from same if there is meat, pushes a lot more oil to the heads, helps cooling.

Are the T1 hydros made like that?
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Max Welton
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Re: Time to freshen up

Post by Max Welton » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:31 pm

I did not take any pictures of the the lifters. They are the lifters offered in this kit:

http://www.mofoco.com/item/Mofoco_Type_ ... 8_/3156/p2

From memory, they had two channels around the middle like a T1 solid.

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Re: Time to freshen up

Post by Max Welton » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:04 pm

OK, I'm declaring the rebuild done and a success. I've added a bunch of pictures to the album, but some of them are from my new smart-phone and they don't sort right on the page with the pictures from my camera. See http://www.maxwelton2k.net/squareback68 ... build2014/

Anyways, I was complaining about the lifters not pumping up. I haven't really solved that problem but I took up most of the adjustment so they aren't as noisy. Another thing is that I was in a rush to get the engine together (my backup car took a dump) and when I found that the 10.5 inch pushrods I got were too short I made the best of it and slapped it all together. So the geometry is whacked ATM but I will order some longer pushrods and deal with it in-car. Here's a short video I took working on my cold-start setup. Not too bad.

http://www.maxwelton2k.net/squareback68 ... 093046.wmv

In the good news column, the engine doesn't leak. I had tried a few things last time that didn't work out well(*) and this is much better. I learn best by trying things.

The SLR EXV264Hyd cam feels really crisp. Of course it's being helped by the increased CR (8.0:1 vice 7.3:1) and the fact that the top-end is all fresh. Given those things it's hard to separate out the cam change from the rest.

Other things... I found this impending fuel-leak. :shock: Fabbed up a fresh bit of hard line and I've doubled up the brackets and added some protection. I'll keep an eye on it. This made the rebuild worth it all by itself.

Image

Image

Max

(*) The CLT located in the head gave nice readings, but leaked. It's now hanging by zip-ties under the #2 exhaust pushrod tube, behind the thermostat. Hope it stays put.
(*) No gasket between the Berg sump and the case, just case sealant. It leaked.
(*) No gasket between the Berg pump and the Berg pump cover, just case sealant. It leaked.

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Re: Time to freshen up

Post by Piledriver » Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:16 pm

I strongly recommend a brass or SS bulkhead fitting for the sheet metal feed throughs.
REALLY good ones can be had from Swagelok distributors for a few$ (industrial fittings) sometimes cheaper than parts store Chinese brass.

The factory Djet regulator is designed as the feed through on the rear tin. so that takes care of one side.
(You can get vacuum referenced version from Summit/Jegs, Mallory branded, but its really a Bosch DJet regulator)

If you can't do that for some reason, provide some clearance and install adel clamps on both sides to prevent any movement/rubbing.
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Max Welton
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Re: Time to freshen up

Post by Max Welton » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:37 pm

Here we go. Cold start, no throttle. I changed the ASE curve. Course it is about 10 degrees warmer now. I'll see what it's like in the morning.

http://youtu.be/Lfmx4a2pnRk


Wonder why the YouTube tag isn't working for me?

Max

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Re: Time to freshen up

Post by Jadewombat » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:42 am

Max Welton wrote:#3 leakdown has reached 50% while the other three are still under 20%.

Plus it's gotten kind of dirty since the megasquirt went on in early 2011.

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I used Engine Restore on my bug a couple of years ago and my '06 Ford F-150. It worked on the bug and brought the compression up considerably on all cylinders except #3 (only gained a couple of psi). Made no difference on my truck though which was using oil between changes (never missed an oil change and I don't have a lead foot).

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