Factory injection to carb swap

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hemicat
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Factory injection to carb swap

Post by hemicat » Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:35 pm

I have a set of IDF 40's off my beetle and a friend wants to get his square up and running to use for back and forth to work and has a hacked up factory injection. I know the dual manifolds will fit but just not sure about the dizzy. Will the one it has work with carb or will it need to be swapped out? If so will a 009 work just till a final plan for it is worked out?

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Piledriver
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Re: Factory injection to carb swap

Post by Piledriver » Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:37 pm

The one he has will work at least as well as a 009, unless it's beat.
Do the Webers have ported vacuum?(for vac advance)
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hemicat
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Re: Factory injection to carb swap

Post by hemicat » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:12 pm

I do have vac adapters under each barrel for when I had the magnaspark electronic dizzy in mine.

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Re: Factory injection to carb swap

Post by sideshow » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:44 pm

The factory distributor works fine w/o the d-jet attached, you will have to treat it like a 009 and time by total advance by rpm.
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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Re: Factory injection to carb swap

Post by Piledriver » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:47 pm

The std vac can needs ported vacuum (or a vacuum switch so it only sees manifold vac at idle), the magnaspark needed manifold vacuum.

As said, just run it like a 009, set up max timing to some safe value at ~4K.

A 009 will have more initial but is still likely to not work as well in other ways.

We could probably help him fix his EFI if he wants to "stop by".
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hemicat
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Re: Factory injection to carb swap

Post by hemicat » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:46 am

I have been the one working on it, trying to teach him all I can. He is planning to build an engine to put in but just wants to get it running so his wife can have her car back. We are planning on an aftermarket efi build so no point in spending to get this working with leaking injectors and broken harness connectors when we don't plan on keeping it around. Thanks for the advise and wisdom. You guys are the best!

hemicat
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Re: Factory injection to carb swap

Post by hemicat » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:24 am

Just got to thinking about the trans issue. He has an auto stick, does it need any kind of vac signal or will this be an easy swap?

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Re: Factory injection to carb swap

Post by Piledriver » Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:42 pm

That could easily be an issue.
If he has a very mild cam and a vacuum can with all 4 carbs (and check valves) feeding it, it will probably work.
Perhaps there are other solutions, the late model 003 full automatics on Golfs and such used a throttle position bellcrank setup in lieu of the vacuum modulator, but those are quite different than the old auto stick.
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hemicat
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Re: Factory injection to carb swap

Post by hemicat » Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:51 pm

Decided against the dual carb swap. Possibly going single TB aftermarket injection, something parts can be a little more easily found for. Got to looking at the car and it has an auto tranny, not an auto stick that he originally led me to think it was. So now again I dont know what the options are from here. He wants to keep it auto for his wife so that limits it a little.

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Piledriver
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Re: Factory injection to carb swap

Post by Piledriver » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:15 pm

hemicat wrote:Decided against the dual carb swap. Possibly going single TB aftermarket injection, something parts can be a little more easily found for. Got to looking at the car and it has an auto tranny, not an auto stick that he originally led me to think it was. So now again I dont know what the options are from here. He wants to keep it auto for his wife so that limits it a little.

Microsquirt v3 is pretty much the bang for buck leader, and could easily be mounted in the factory location if so desired.
(just needs a bead of silicone to fully seal it up, not done at factory to allow easier mods.

Or, if you are feeling masochistic :twisted: , we can probably help you fix the factory stuff, Ray Greenwood, our resident expert has been available lately. It's usually the harness...

The microsquirt comes with a nice, fresh harness, and proper AMP automotive grade connectors.

Trigger setup: On a T3, one of the 24-1 modified 009s from Redline Weber, the 12-1 Hall version Mario is working on, or a DIY version like the 36-1(OK, 36-2, stuff happens) hall version I made are almost drop in and go timing setups.

It will run using the factory ignition, but you are missing a great deal.
(with careful setup, you can still use the distributor as a trigger so it's programmable...)

The Microsquirt may not like the factory injectors much, you can do SO much better...
Retrofitting other injectors is not rocket science, something modern (even just not 40 years old) strongly recommended.
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hemicat
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Re: Factory injection to carb swap

Post by hemicat » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:26 pm

It's not the connectors that are the problem, the injectors themselves are leaking in the middle. We are not against using what it has, just I don't know what will fit or where to get. Swapping over to aftermarket would be ok as I have some experience with the cb setup on my bug. It's coming along nicely, just don't have much time to mess with it.

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Re: Factory injection to carb swap

Post by Bobsnotch » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:50 pm

hemicat wrote: We are not against using what it has, just I don't know what will fit or where to get. Swapping over to aftermarket would be ok as I have some experience with the cb setup on my bug. It's coming along nicely, just don't have much time to mess with it.
You might want to have a look at Max Welton's set up. He's using most of the original hard parts (plenum, runners, etc) of the FI, but went with a MS set up to feed it. Others have gone this route too. JSM Engineering is making replacement FI harnesses, and stock type 3 injectors are still available. Just something to keep in mind/think about.

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Re: Factory injection to carb swap

Post by Piledriver » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:05 pm

... and those harnesses are MUCH better quality than factory.
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Fastie
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Re: Factory injection to carb swap

Post by Fastie » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:34 am

Just read your thread. I have 8 good factory injectors. Could send from Australia easily.
I run mega squirt through factory efi hardware.
Mine is also turbocharged and running Mitsubishi 270cc injectors.
Here's a pic. You can get mega squirt running so much better than factory

Image

Image

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Re: Factory injection to carb swap

Post by aircooledtechguy » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:55 pm

Fastie wrote:Just read your thread. I have 8 good factory injectors. Could send from Australia easily.
I run mega squirt through factory efi hardware.
Mine is also turbocharged and running Mitsubishi 270cc injectors.
Here's a pic. You can get mega squirt running so much better than factory

Image

Image
Nice MS conversion!! Would you happen to have the P/N for those Mitsubishi injectors handy or even what year/model they came from?? Thanks.

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