Type 3 front end additional camber

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Piledriver
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Re: Type 3 front end additional camber

Post by Piledriver » Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:32 am

As a follow up, I tore both the mounted and original suspenisions down last weekend to have a look...

Also swapped the 73 springs and much heavier sway bar in, as well as dropping it a tiny bit while I was there.
(It was fully apart anyway, so it needed set up/levelled regardless)

The inner splines are only about an inch deep, couldn't really tell if the socket was any deeper.

Due to where the bearings ride on the arm and the width of the bearing surface, 4mm looks like about max spacer unless one sleeves the arm (often needed repair for wear) and perhaps installs wider bearings (delrin or bronze etc). Might get away with 5mm.

With wider bearing surface in the beam the spline engagement becomes the limiter, I'd feel much more than 1/4" would probably be pushing the limits of the splines.

Considering bending the upper arm back a bit, would effectively "lengthen" the arm, increase neg camber and increase caster, all positive features done within reason. 1/4" would probably be sufficient for most uses.

You could bend the lower out but the lower handles most of the loads, like holding the car up and stuff.
Comparatively, the upper is almost along for the ride.
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Re: Type 3 front end additional camber

Post by Piledriver » Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:58 am

Are any of the currently made T3 lower ball joints eccentric as the factory ones were?
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PlanB
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Re: Type 3 front end additional camber

Post by PlanB » Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:02 pm

I did the spacers on the bottom steering/ trailing arm. I got premade spacers that were the right thickness from a Formula Vee/Super Vee site (forgot which one) where this 'trick' is commonly used to gain more negative camber. Worked well. Along with a slight bending of the upper arms I eventually got -3º.

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Re: Type 3 front end additional camber

Post by Piledriver » Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:58 pm

PlanB wrote:I did the spacers on the bottom steering/ trailing arm. I got premade spacers that were the right thickness from a Formula Vee/Super Vee site (forgot which one) where this 'trick' is commonly used to gain more negative camber. Worked well. Along with a slight bending of the upper arms I eventually got -3º.

Cool.
What was the magic thickness?
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PlanB
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Re: Type 3 front end additional camber

Post by PlanB » Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:28 pm

About 4mm+/_ — as you suggested/guessed.

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Clatter
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Re: Type 3 front end additional camber

Post by Clatter » Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:21 pm

MMmm... This subject is very dear to my heart.

Very interested as to what you end up doing, so keep us posted.

I went through several iterations making my late bug handle better,
And those Bugpack eccentric/adjusters made a big difference.
These are the ones where the hole is offset to make the adjustment range larger..
Can't seem to find a link..
Getting max camber up front made the car totally point-and-shoot vs. a plowing pig.

Another idea tossed around is to make the upper narrower.
Seems you could shave the ends off of the sway/torsion, and shave the cracked plastic bushings down a bit to match?

Camber up front makes a bigger difference than just about anything, AFAICT...
"Oh, You don't need to do all that... The valve seats are just going to fall out of it anyway!"
- Doug Ellsworth

Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853

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Re: Type 3 front end additional camber

Post by Piledriver » Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:18 pm

4mm ---between the bars--- is likely a pretty stout camber change by the time it gets to the tire.
Considering that "stock" is ~+1.5 degrees, -3 degrees (or even -2) makes for a happy dance.

For better or worse the extra angle upper ball joints don't exist for T3s, and the lowers made today are centered (zero offset) so you lose a lot of caster vs stock. Only the OG lower ball joints had the eccentric.
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Re: Type 3 front end additional camber

Post by Piledriver » Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:24 pm

I should also note this should allow you to get to zero>-1 or so without losing half your caster as if using the upper ball joint to set camber. Should be able to set max rearward on the upper ball joint and still get to ~zero camber.

I have my upper ball joint set for max camber, it's now -0.5, she still drives OK at speed but self centers weakly, but I'd like to set camber with the spacer so I can get some caster back.

As I finished the ghetto tubbing/resealing of the rear inner fenders to allow full "up" travel with the 245/50s last weekend, I lowered the back end about an inch today, just had to take some of the preload off the 4-way coil overs.
The rears are now at ~-1.5 camber each side.

If it stops raining (has just been spitting off and on, starts every time I pull out the welder :evil: ) I may make a couple spacers and dig in tomorrow.
Want to finish the DIY camping hinges too, we shall see.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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