Beetle Engine in Squareback

Notches, fastbacks, squarebacks.

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matthewchad
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Beetle Engine in Squareback

Post by matthewchad » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:49 pm

Help! I just bought a 72' type 3 WITHOUT and engine. I was wondering how much of a hassle it is to put my 74' type 1 engine into it.
This sounds like a simple question, and i would have guessed that its been done a million times, but i cant find any knowledge on this particular project.
I am thinking of building a sheet metal box over the protruding fan shroud and accessories, but do you see any other hiccups that might hold this seemingly simple swap up?

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Max Welton
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Re: Beetle Engine in Squareback

Post by Max Welton » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:47 pm

It's been done, but it is problematic.

The box over the engine traps hot air rising from the engine, feeding it into the cooling system.

Heated air is not so good for cooling.

Max

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Piledriver
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Re: Beetle Engine in Squareback

Post by Piledriver » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:36 pm

I strongly suggest getting a T3 cooling system to bolt onto your T1 motor, thus making a T3 motor.

You should be able to get a dead t3 motor complete pretty cheap.
Depending on what exactly is in your 74, the block is either interchangeable or adaptable.

The squareback is a great little station wagon, not being able to use it as such would be sad.
(Plus what you are proposing would die a horrible death, quickly, as Max mentioned)

I have a 1.8L EFI T4 motor in mine, with slightly upgraded brakes and suspension, and Mahle alloys off my 914. It is an absolute blast to drive it 80 miles a day for the last 3+ years.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

matthewchad
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Re: Beetle Engine in Squareback

Post by matthewchad » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:50 pm

I would gladly pay for a dead t3 motor but havent a clue of how to find one fast.
Do you gentlemen know of any t3 resources on the web? is there somewhere i can buy a kit to finish out a long block?
Also how about t3 part dealers as well on the net?

Thanks for your input and advice.

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aircooledtechguy
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Re: Beetle Engine in Squareback

Post by aircooledtechguy » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:51 pm

Where are you located??

www.craigslist.com is your friend.

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Marc
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Re: Beetle Engine in Squareback

Post by Marc » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:20 am

Sealing off the engine compartment to separate cool and heated air, while vital, is actually not the biggest concern.

IRS Type IIIs lack frame horns to support the drivetrain. The entire weight of the engine/trans is suspended by the front trans mount and by two hangers at the sides of the engine compartment. A stamped steel bracket ("moustache bar") bolts up to the rear (pulley end) of the engine and to the outboard mounts. IRS Type II and III cases have special bosses in their castings to allow for the three mounting bolts involved. Some Type I cases will be found to have these bosses as well (or perhaps only one or two of them) and they may be undrilled, drilled, drilled/tapped, or in finished drilled/tapped/Helicoiled condition depending upon what stage of machining they were at when raided from the Type II line to keep Type I production up.
If your case does not have these bosses, there is an aftermarket "solution" - a metal bracket which bolts over the oil pump and picks up the m8 bolt at the rear/bottom of the sump, to which the moustache bar can be bolted. These "Mickey Mounts" do present some minor problems with alignment but they will get you through a propulsion emergency if you have no better option. You'll also need a flat pump cover and some longer studs. I suspect that you'll also need some spacers to move the pulleys rearward for clearance to the moustache bar, especially if you use a thicker-than-stock pump, and that leaves no room for the breastplate under the pulley (bringing us back around to problems with recirculating hot air). It's assumed that your case is `68-up with 8mm oil pump studs - I wouldn't even think of doing this with 6mm studs.
Image
Piledriver wrote:I strongly suggest getting a T3 cooling system to bolt onto your T1 motor, thus making a T3 motor...
There's a bit more to it - you'll need heat exchangers and a muffler as well as the fan, cast aluminum housing, and sheetmetal bits. You'll also need a Type III oil cooler (or you can use a doghouse Type I) - hardware and seal selection will depend upon the exact case & cooler being used, and there are some potential pitfalls. The Type III uses a combined oil fill/dipstick tube accessible without opening the engine hatch, and a Type I or II case does not have a place for it to bolt up to the sump. You can get by with a flexible dipstick with a longer handle and by filling the oil via the breather box - but it won't be long before the plastic cap gets loose from repeated use, so a better filler arrangement should be devised. All things considered, I'd say that it's more work than it's worth for a temporary, Mickey-Mounted installation - you may as well spend the time with some sheet metal shears building some panels to seal off the air for an upright cooling system instead...although since the engine will be drawing air from within the cockpit it's going to be a bit noisy inside - your sheetmetal box is going to have to be somewhat open in order to allow cool air in, if it's closed the fan will pull hot air through every little gap you leave.

matthewchad
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Re: Beetle Engine in Squareback

Post by matthewchad » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:02 pm

Well that is disheartening. But thank you very much for your input Marc.

I would still like to ask for resources if anyone has any. I am in dallas and would like to buy a type III engine.

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Piledriver
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Re: Beetle Engine in Squareback

Post by Piledriver » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:12 pm

matthewchad wrote:Well that is disheartening. But thank you very much for your input Marc.

I would still like to ask for resources if anyone has any. I am in dallas and would like to buy a type III engine.
You are in Dallas?
Go buy a lottery ticket.
(You have a PM)
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

dorkie
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Re: Beetle Engine in Squareback

Post by dorkie » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:28 pm

I was reading through all of this and I easily have 2 or 3 of everything needed to make a type 1 go into a type 3 except for the rear engine mount... anyway, when I saw that Matthew is in Dallas, I was like, "cooooool, Pile will handle this" and then I see Piledriver's reply. Piledriver is one helluva cool dude.

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