DBW air cooled

Fuel Supply & Ignition Systems

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emerald
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DBW air cooled

Post by emerald » Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:39 pm

sorry i have not post for a long time this site will not let me log in with any of my old user name's bug man nrg or m3d
I have good news we have got the DBW to work on the air cooled vdubs and now i have time on my hands to play with the car i will try to post more

"https://youtu.be/2O1LHcnRtDQ
let me know what you think

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Jadewombat
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Re: DBW air cooled

Post by Jadewombat » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:19 pm

Interesting, but not the first type 1 DBW. A guy in Brazil posted a few years ago here on STF with a DBW setup. I'll see if I can find the post.

Good looking setup though. Specs??

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Jadewombat
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Re: DBW air cooled

Post by Jadewombat » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:44 pm

Couldn't find it on STF, but it's over on TS:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482104

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ps2375
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Re: DBW air cooled

Post by ps2375 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:40 am

That sounds like the biggest waste of time, money and resources to me. DBW, along with PS and many other so-called advancements aren't needed or called for and serve no real purpose. Other than to cause things like toyota's unintended acceleration problems(and now they have steer by wire on some cars). But, that is my opinion.

Why would you need/want to over complicate such a simple thing.

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Jadewombat
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Re: DBW air cooled

Post by Jadewombat » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:36 pm

The VAG group started DBW in the late 90s to give them more engine control from what I understand of it. You could turn the key with the pedal to the floor or keep holding on the key and it had absolutely no effect on the presets in the ECU to actually start the car. Which in turn gives the manufacturers more control over reliability, less warranty issues of people who still think there's a four-barrel and a choke or whatever under the hood--as well as a better fit to the engine maps with DBW across the rev range, a hair better mileage, hp, etc.

I had a new GTI in 2007 and I really didn't like the feel of the DBW on that car. It was way too sensitive, I don't know, just felt really stabby driving around town or cruising. Full throttle or hard gassing it was fine of course.

My current Chevy Colorado DBW is nice though.

I agree, it's probably overkill setting DBW up on an air-cooled VW but please prove us wrong if there's a significant amount of driveability, hp, and mileage to be gained.

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Piledriver
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Re: DBW air cooled

Post by Piledriver » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:15 am

For ITBs it could be an awesome win.
MS3 (maybe 2?) supports it these days via a GM controller for all the failsafe/liability reasons you could imagine.

For tuning purposes a huge TB can be beneficial for high RPM, but turns the throttle into an on/off switch.
... but there are other ways to achieve the same effect ...slot-fed plenums come to mind, the slot and feed area is the plenum entry, decouples actual TB size from plenum tuning.
(See: ~any racing Audi intake manifold for the last ~20 years)
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emerald
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Re: DBW air cooled

Post by emerald » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:02 am

the guy that did this was part cable and part dbw this one is 100% dbw i usred all oem vw parts .My new set up will not let me use a cable this is why i did this .I also did dbw with parts from Jenvey parts and it work well this is why i did this project

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Jadewombat
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Re: DBW air cooled

Post by Jadewombat » Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:15 am

Pile, so you're saying your going to step up and configure the world's first air-cooled v-dub with variable intake runners??

:)

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Piledriver
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Re: DBW air cooled

Post by Piledriver » Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:26 pm

Jadewombat wrote:Pile, so you're saying your going to step up and configure the world's first air-cooled v-dub with variable intake runners??

:)
Unlikely, hard to fabricate in back yard, but it may have variable plenum inlet slot areas, which should have a very similar effect.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

emerald
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Re: DBW air cooled

Post by emerald » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:24 pm

Unlikely, hard to fabricate in back yard, but it may have variable plenum inlet slot areas, which should have a very similar effect.

i like the sound of that .If only you was in Florida i would let you do this in the shop i think this would be a good
thing .do you have plans for this ???

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Jadewombat
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Re: DBW air cooled

Post by Jadewombat » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:11 pm

I had a Mistu. 3.0l. V6 at one point in time with this setup. My friend said full-throttle and it would just peen open butterflies to redirect the air from long to short runners, IIRC. BMW had (probably still does) an intricate setup of a vortex of runners on their 7 series motors in the early to mid-90s which looked not unlike a cross-section of a nautilus type shell.

Thinking out loud, the transition switching from short to long runners probably isn't very long at all but would make tuning a bit interesting with the sudden change in MAP pressure (assuming that's what the ECU is referencing and not a hot-wire setup, etc.). Basically just two settings with the additional butterflies like Pile was saying, on-off, etc. Maybe it's not too drastic a transition though thinking of all of those millions of cars with progressive throttle bodies (eg. VAG cars)??

Thoughts?

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ps2375
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Re: DBW air cooled

Post by ps2375 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:36 pm

VR's had a valve that did this and the 2.8 30V V6's had this also.

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Piledriver
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Re: DBW air cooled

Post by Piledriver » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:14 am

emerald wrote:Unlikely, hard to fabricate in back yard, but it may have variable plenum inlet slot areas, which should have a very similar effect.

i like the sound of that .If only you was in Florida i would let you do this in the shop i think this would be a good
thing .do you have plans for this ???
Only in the amusement park of my mind. :lol:
Hoping to fab it this fall now that I can work outside w/o bursting into flames.
Its a lot easier to pull off on a T3/t4 with stock cooling, as the fan housing isn't in the way.
(you want to pair 1/3 and 2/4, so a plenum (~3" tube) tube across the engine for each pair)
Plenty of room in the middle on a T4 with stock cooling.
Would ~work with a plenum on each side but not as efficiently due to the firing order.
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Jadewombat
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Re: DBW air cooled

Post by Jadewombat » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:20 am

In my mind's eye, I'm thinking a setup with a dual TB end castings out near the heads, on top of that two downward runners and one large runner coming in from the side conjoined to a plenum which runs to a single TB above the middle of the case, on top of those out at the heads dual TBs set up for DBW.

I know it's a cluster trying to explain this, I'll see if I can p-chop something together visually. The single TB at the center would work most of the time, at full-throttle the duals would open.

Sorry for the topic hijack, Emerald.

emerald
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Re: DBW air cooled

Post by emerald » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:17 pm

I tried to stay away from the DBW thing for long time but now things are a lot better than they was back in the late 90s most good ECUs can do DBW now so what is the hang up ????

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