Adventures with MS3 knock module

[thedrew]

Hey guys -- I've seen a few threads on knock detection, but I haven't seen much on the MS3 knock module.

So I'll start this thread and we can all learn together

I'm running MS3X in full sequential, I just installed the MS3 knock module board on my ecu. I tied K1,K2 to SPR3, SPR4 on the main board.

I got two Bosch 0261231006 Knock Sensor -- its a wideband knock sensor, so I believe with just a EV1 connector I'll be ready to hook it up.

Here's the knock module installed.

[terryly]

Watching Hope this goes smoothly for you. I have read that MS3pro also has this option.
Terry

[thedrew]

I guess my first question is, where do I put these knock sensors?

[Steve Arndt]

OEMs install them on the thrust side of the cylinders, at mid point of stroke.

I put mine on the top of the case to to capture noise from both cylinder banks.

[thedrew]

Well I got it installed.....I put it on the stud for the distributor clamp. I'm not sure where to put the other yet...

Also, not sure where to do with this. I had to turn the gain down on all cyinders (0.500 on all). I'm assuming turn the gain down so I get the same signal across all 4?



heres my settings so far




and heres a recording so far......

[billz60vw]

as rpm rises the noise level increases so you are going to have to raise your knock threshold up at higher rpm.

[falcor]

This is how they're mounted on the P964, I think something similar would work well for the type 4?

[Steve Arndt]

See how it is mounted on the thrust side and the center of the bore. That is what I mentioned earlier.

[thedrew]

interesting. I'm not sure how I could get a strap like that on the T1 cylinders

[Steve Arndt]

The center location on the engine case works okay like how you did it, I did it the same way.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1121713.jpg

[volksbugly]

subscribed. I am looking for the official instructions on how to install the sensor. I found a video of some random person doing it, but I like "official" instructions on things like this. I'm putting in the map daddy and the ms3 knock module this weekend or during the Thanksgiving break. I have the MS3 yanked out. I was going to mount my knock sensor at the top of the engine tab near the top of the bubble and flywheel, but I like the idea of near the distributor better.

[Piledriver]

Jake mounted the sensors on the centerline, one on an aluminum block bolted to the trans bell housing top bolt (or lift ear)
I mounted #1 directly to the same location, and a second one on a small bit of 1/2" aluminum bolted to the pulley end lift ear (for lack of a better term) on a T4.

I imagine the dimensions/mass of the mounting chunk of aluminum or whatever may provide some frequency filtering//selectivity//tunability? (in the amusement park of my mind, anyway)

Each cylinder can have its gain set individually, and you may get a better signal/noise ratio on any given cylinder from the more distant sensor--- the sample time window is critical for ignoring noise and only sampling the signal in the crank angles where it CAN knock.

My main issue is my current motor is apparently just about det proof in its current NA form, so beyond abusing the hell out of my motor via doing ~all the things you should never, ever do, trying to get some actual knock to test it, it hasn't seen much use.

At higher RPM, the background noise gets pretty high, but at high RPM you generally don't have to worry about knock (unless boosted)

[volksbugly]

My main issue is my current motor is apparently just about det proof in its current NA form, so beyond abusing the hell out of my motor via doing ~all the things you should never, ever do, trying to get some actual knock to test it, it hasn't seen much use.

At higher RPM, the background noise gets pretty high, but at high RPM you generally don't have to worry about knock (unless boosted)

I've thought a lot about this. What I plan on trying is to take one of the ignition points and set it out of bounds so it will ping hopefully, but at a low rpm and low load. The frequency should be the same at high or low rpm. Hitting a piece of metal fast or slow will create the same frequency just different amplitude. I plan to start looking into knock frequencies of similar boxer engines just to get a very rough guestimation.

[Steve Arndt]

Set a window and only gather your data from 5 to 30 after TDC. The window is one of the main ways to pre filter mechanical noise from the research I've done.

The J&S safeguard has a sampling window like that.

[mads b (dk)]

Why after ? Ignition is set before Tdc?

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