MS-3 2110 Buildup

Fuel Supply & Ignition Systems

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Max Welton
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Re: MS-3 2110 Buildup

Post by Max Welton » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:24 pm

I think I need to get the shroud, manifolds and throttle bodies all in position on the engine and see where the throttle cables and fuel lines will be. If I can walk around it things should make themselves clear.

Max

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andy198712
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Re: MS-3 2110 Buildup

Post by andy198712 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:59 pm

Max Welton wrote:Got a package from Mario today. He modified my MS-3 for an internal baro and logic-level drivers for the LS2s. These are the new 2-up mounts. 8)

So now I'm thinking about where the coils should go. Maybe on top of the shroud?

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Max
what grey injectors are those bud?

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Max Welton
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Re: MS-3 2110 Buildup

Post by Max Welton » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:32 am

andy198712 wrote:what grey injectors are those bud?
Those are 97 Ford Escort spec injectors I use on my other MS engine.

Max

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Re: MS-3 2110 Buildup

Post by andy198712 » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:10 pm

They look a lot like gsxr upper injectors... Flow a lot?

Cheers :)

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Max Welton
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Re: MS-3 2110 Buildup

Post by Max Welton » Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:09 pm

I dunno. I suppose they flow enough to support a 110 hp 4-banger in a Ford Escort since that is what they came from. :wink: During a long hard pull I can get them to about 50% duty cycle on the mild 1776 at 6000'. I'll let you know what they flow when they come back from ProFlow. I have a set there for the complete service and flow testing.

Anyways, back to the 2110. I mentioned that I needed to hang everything on the engine to find out where the interferences would be. Well I found some.

In their original application these TBs were on a V4 with the fuel rails towards engine center. And the throttle cable approach was from the same direction. But this VW shroud does not leave enough room for that. So I'm looking for a different style shroud that leaves more room inboard of the TB. It needs to be a doghouse shroud that will accept flaps. I will need heat but I am mentally moving towards a gas heater over the transmission (something like a BA4). So the new shroud would not have the heat exchanger output.

These pictures show the TBs mounted the way I don't want them. If it weren't for the cable approach direction this would require I would be OK with this. And the wide KG engine room would let me do it. 8)

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This is what happens when I turn one around. Everything hits the shroud.

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Given the above can someone educate me on suitable shrouds I can think about?

Alternately, I am also trying to think of a way to get the cables to approach the TBs from the fender-side.

Max

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Re: MS-3 2110 Buildup

Post by Piledriver » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:18 pm

The gray GXSR secondary injectors are 450cc @42 psi IIRC.
Push >600cc at 5 bar (upper spec limit)
Those are off a 600... :shock:

The Mazda GDi injectors I have must be like firehoses at 1250 PSi.
They do ~550 at 5 bar, based on some youtube video ad I saw for cleaning/testing them.
(apparently no one(?) tests them at rated pressures, commercial test gear that does GDi rated pressures does not exist)
5 bar is limp mode/dead HP pump etc. Minimum typical operating pressure is ~200 PSI.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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Re: MS-3 2110 Buildup

Post by Max Welton » Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:25 pm

Turns out the 36 HP style shroud is just what I needed. I will need to drill some holes for the flaps. And at some point I will need to come up with a solution for cabin heat.

In case anyone wants my old extended shroud and type-4 cooler, it is for sale.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... id=1682142

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Max

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andy198712
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Re: MS-3 2110 Buildup

Post by andy198712 » Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:55 pm

Hi max, be interested in those flow results as and when.
The 36hp shroud looks ideal! Scat? I'm in a similar boat!
I also have a old bn4 in my beetle, heat on tap!! Beautiful!

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Re: MS-3 2110 Buildup

Post by Max Welton » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:13 pm

Updated the firmware to 1.3.2. I'm wondering what is the difference between the regular MS firmware and MS pro?

My search foo must be weak today.

Max

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Re: MS-3 2110 Buildup

Post by jhoefer » Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:14 pm

Max Welton wrote:Updated the firmware to 1.3.2. I'm wondering what is the difference between the regular MS firmware and MS pro?

My search foo must be weak today.

Max
Feature wise, I don't think there is any. MS3-Pro just has all the optional hardware parts of MS3 built in. But you can't load one on the other due to pinout differences. Not sure what all bad things might happen if you do.

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Re: MS-3 2110 Buildup

Post by Piledriver » Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:31 am

^^^^ what he said.
...Much like the difference between ms2-e and uS.
Pinout differences etc.

You can have more features on a wildly modded std MS3 box than the MS3-pro can physically hook up to.

The pro just comes with the kitchen sink designed /built in (knock/RTC etc) as it's a nominally sealed unit and all SMT, so much harder to modify.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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Re: MS-3 2110 Buildup

Post by Chip Birks » Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:29 am

Names of everything are different with the Pro. I've got one of each in service right now with the same firmware version, but correct for the ecu.

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Max Welton
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Re: MS-3 2110 Buildup

Post by Max Welton » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:13 pm

So I'm getting to the engine wiring harness. What sort of crimping tool should I be looking for on these?

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Re: MS-3 2110 Buildup

Post by sideshow » Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:03 pm

And what kind of connectors are those? They look weather pack open barrel'ish.
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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Re: MS-3 2110 Buildup

Post by Max Welton » Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:20 pm

It's the plug for one of Mario's hidden VR 36-1 setup.

http://www.maxwelton2k.net/ghia/Engine/IMG_8258a.html

Max

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